Student ReviewPeter Byram

Non Artist · United States

InterviewTranscript

  • Three, two, one. All right, hey everybody, Harry Whelchel here. We've got Peter Byram from Peter Byram Consulting. He helps wedding photographers grow their business. We had a call a couple of months ago, but we just wanted to catch up, have a quick catch up call and celebrate a couple of wins. So, Peter, what sort of wins are we celebrating today?

  • Yeah, Harry, thanks for having me on. So basically when we started working together, I was around 10K a month. Then we grew up to 18 and most recently we're at 35K a month now.

  • Awesome, man. Okay, great. So I just wanna have a quick conversation to kind of dig into that, like what was necessary to go from about 10K to 18 and 18 to 35. So why don't you take the floor and just like, tell, walk me through back, like remember, what was the first thing we did going from that like kind of 10K to 18K.

  • Yeah, so there were a couple of things. First thing is like really solving, paid traffic and dialing in like an automated lead gen system. Because like, while organic is a wildly powerful way to get business and like I'm still, I still actively do it and believe in it and know that it's a powerful thing to do. There's something to automating that entire process, right? Like when you can just have calls on your calendar without having to go out and like haunt and, every single day that was massive. So really solving that was key to making that first kind of lead.

  • Okay, right. And so with that, like what do you think, like, I remember when we were doing that, you got really good at organic hunting and farming, right? That's your jam, right? So like when you get so good at something and they're like, all right, to go to the next level, I actually have to put that down and do something different. Like, is that hard to do?

  • Yeah, it was really hard. It was really hard to do that because I didn't want to like take my foot off the gas with that was really what it came down to. There's like a satisfaction that I get from doing things that are hard, and that's a strength, right? But it can also, it has a dark side because it can also hold you back if you're not willing to like evolve and go to the next thing, like I kind of think about how in "The Last Dance" the Michael Jordan documentary, how Jordan had to let go of being the, leading the league in scoring to then shift and adapt to becoming more of like a team player, right? And like, I think that's a really helpful thing, that was ultimately like what allows me to make changes like that, because you just realize if you wanna do get results, you've never gotten before. Like Michael Jordan wanted to start winning championships, not just leading the league in scoring, you have to be, you have to change and you have to let go of something. And it was hard to do that. I didn't wanna let go of that, but I knew ultimately was the only way I was gonna be able to go to the next level.

  • Yeah, and it's like, you have this hard, but known thing that's proven. And then you have this like unknown, unknown.

  • Yeah.

  • That you know from best practices is gonna take you to the next level, but you haven't done it yet. So it's this unknown quantity. So, yeah. And I think that's a great metaphor with Michael Jordan because it's like, he knew it's hard to be the best as an individual, but he wanted to start winning as a team, but he didn't know what it's gonna take, but he had to like, kind of take that first step in faith to change up what he prioritized a little bit.

  • Yeah, and it's kind of scary too. Because in order to do that, you have to take your foot off the gas with the proven thing that's working, because there's only so much time, right? So you have to stop doing the thing that's working to invest in the thing that you don't know is definitely gonna work, which might like make revenue dip down. And I think that could get a lot of people. I could see how a lot of people would get stuck there and wouldn't be able to make that change because of the risk essentially.

  • What do you think aloud? So, that was the first thing we did is like, get that going. What happened next?

  • So, okay. The other thing is, what you find out with ads is that if you're running like, a VSL funnel where people are booking appointments against the calendar, what you'll find is that the numbers really don't make sense. Unless you charge a certain amount of money, it's just not worth doing.

  • You have to look at the unit economics of the channel.

  • Exactly, you look at the unit economics, it doesn't make sense to even run the business for the business to even exist.

  • Right?

  • Unless...

  • You got it profitable and break even, but you're like, wait a minute. Like this was a lot of work and I think.

  • It's a lot of work.

  • I'm making less profit. So what's the takeaway there

  • As people don't get about paid ads.

  • Yeah.

  • Like that's the thing is like, it's one thing to run ads and to get appointments and to like do calls. It's another thing to like make big win falls of cash in your business from paid ads.

  • Yup. And so what, we were looking at that cold, hard reality, what was the takeaway? What was the next step there?

  • You have to raise your prices, dude.

  • And was that like, I mean, walking back, I know we had a couple of discussions and from my angle, I felt like it was something I had to pull your teeth on. Like how were you feeling about it when we were talking about it?

  • Yeah, it's a good point. So like anything, when you make a big change in your business, in your life, it's uncomfortable, but I've really learned to like rewire the way I think about feeling uncomfortable just from doing it a lot to where now it's like being uncomfortable is actually a signal that I'm doing the right thing. So I just was like, I'm just gonna do it. I'm almost just gonna like disassociate from myself and just do it.

  • See what happens.

  • See what happens. And then it's we did it. And people got amazing results and were super happy and were like, I would pay more for this.

  • I feel like maybe this is, I don't know if you remember, but I think right when you're like, all right, we're gonna do this. And then I think you came up maybe with some affirmation, some mindset work a little bit. Do you remember that?

  • Yes, yes I do yeah. The mindset work is honestly it's funny, man. Like every time I'm gonna go to the next level, that's always the thing that does it. It really is. And it's so easy to like overlook that or to like put it on the back burner or be like, ah, yeah. But how much did that really? How much of a difference did that really make? And it's, sometimes it can seem like kind of frivolous, sitting down and creating affirmations and making a vision board or whatever it is that you're doing. It seems like man, this isn't like sales, this isn't like real work, but I have found that to be probably the most worthwhile thing I can do if I'm one of the, maybe the most worthwhile thing. So I sat down and started to think about like really just the results that we'd gotten for our customers up into that point, and just hammered that into my psyche. They're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Like, people are really happy. People are really getting amazing results here. Like people are telling me that like their lives are being changed and all this amazing stuff is happening, but your mind plays tricks on you, right? And it'll tell you that like, no, that isn't actually, it'll just, it'll mess with you. And so hammering that in every single morning with the affirmations and like, looking at images of like happy clients and yeah it just allowed for me to then when I started getting on calls with new prospects to just like have that in my consciousness. It just was like, dude, of course, you want to sign up. Like, let's go. Like, this is what, joining the party, look at what we're doing here. So it's like.

  • Yeah, I love it. And it just, yeah, your confidence is so much better on the call. You're just like, hey this is what it is, like you wanna do this? It's a no brainer.

  • Want to go? No. Okay, somebody else will.

  • Yup, and so I think we made a decision. You made the decision to raise your prices, did the affirmations, right? And what was it like, what happened like maybe two days later?

  • Yeah. So it's funny, like literally like a day or two later, I did 12 grand in a day.

  • So more than you did in the whole, last month? Yeah. More than I did in the whole 30 days prior to that I did in one day. And that just was a, that was a paradigm shifting moment, That was like, what's that?

  • No, go ahead.

  • No, it was just a paradigm shifting moment when you realize like, oh, I could be doing like this business is capable of doing so much more.

  • Do you remember? Like, I feel like, yeah, literally like that day after it happened, maybe the day after, I just felt like there was a shift in our dialogue where you just like acclimated instantly to like 10K days and you're like, all right, I'm ready.

  • Yeah.

  • Remember that?

  • I do remember that, yeah. I'm trying to think of how to like put that into words. It's like you change quickly, like as soon as you know that it, I always think about like Roger Bannister, right? Like, as soon as you know it's possible, everything changes, it's like your standards change instantaneously is what happens, your standards change. And then like you've just become that person that does that. And so now you just show up and do more.

  • Yeah, it was like to me outside looking in, it was like, I think I'm sure the mindset stuff work is still helpful today, but it was almost like you need that mindset stuff for those couple of days to build that confidence. And then like, it just gave you this massive confidence boost where like, you just feel like you can do it and you need the reminder, but you need the reminder less, if that makes sense.

  • Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, you need it less, but it's still important to do it, yeah.

  • Still important. But it was like just the character and tone of your like confidence, like beforehand you were, there was some doubt, right? Fair bit of doubt. And it was just like afterwards, you're like, all right, I'm ready you're hungry. There was like this hunger that got unleashed to like go to 35, go to 50, go to the next level, if that makes sense?

  • Mm-hmm 100%.

  • So, okay. So we did that. So then what was the next phase of this, that kind of brought us to the 18K monthly, what happened to go from 18 to 35?

  • So I just wrote like one really killer ad is kind of what happened. Like, so what I sort of realized at a certain point is that the technical stuff, when it comes to ads management and building and managing scaling campaigns is important, but it sort of dawned on me that like really the most important thing is actually being like an excellent copywriter. Like that's kind of the whole game, because I saw the difference when I wrote an ad that just lit it up. And literally like I was writing it, I wrote this ad and it just packed my calendar for like two weeks. And then what I did was I would just get on those calls and I had such an abundance mentality, right? Because it was like, I have so many appointments here and everybody I was getting on the call with was so warmed up from my value video and from the ad, it's like the ad was pulling the right people through and then the video was getting them warmed up and then they were scheduling and they were coming on and they just wanted to know like the details basically. And because I had so many people on the calendar, I had this mindset of like, look, if you don't, if you're not ready to go, that's okay, no worries at all. And I just would go on to the next person. And people just started falling, like to use some of your language, like Domino's, right? They just, everybody was just like, yep, yep let's do it. And yeah, so I think it was just writing really good copy. And having that mindset that came from doing the affirmations and also from just having such abundance of people to speak to.

  • Yup. And to me, what it comes to mind is like, so you made that lead and it's like that energy and focus and time that you would spend on organic hunting. You're like, okay, I need to shift that energy to copywriting?

  • Yeah.

  • Is that fair?

  • Exactly. That's exactly it. My whole schedule had to change. My day went from being like, going organic, finding people in groups, posting content, messaging, people doing quick chats. My day shifted from that to like deep work alone, writing ads, testing ads, starting to notice patterns, cause and effect relationships. And just doing that all the time.

  • Did it feel like, how uncomfortable did it feel going from that extremely social, out there channel where you're talking to people all the time to doing this deep work channel where you're like, ah, I'm gonna spend 10 hours on this and I don't know if anything's gonna come of it?

  • Yeah. So like I love doing deep work. I like doing both. They're just totally different. It's almost like you're a different person when you're doing one or the other, but I really love doing deep work. The hard part is you just, you almost have a hard time believing it's gonna work,

  • You have to have some courage. Like you have to have like a steel, steel your stomach and be like, all right, I'm gonna do this.

  • Yeah. You're like, I'm gonna write this ad. And like, it's gonna go out there into the ether and we'll see, and sometimes they don't work.

  • And you spend money and you have to have the stomach for that.

  • Hmm, yeah. This is fully different game. It really is.

  • Did you have some ads that didn't work? 'Cause you wrote one killer ad, but you wrote a lot of ads.

  • Yeah, I mean. I don't know, like maybe three, four angles a month and maybe more depends on the month. And like maybe one really kills it and then like one will do okay. But not great. Maybe two will do okay. But not great. And then like one or two, just like really go nowhere, but that's valuable. It's like doing quick chats and putting your message in front of people and it not resonating and not people not getting, oh sorry, doing outreach and not getting quick chats, right? It's the same kind of thing. Like you get feedback when you do that. And then you're like, okay, you record that. You know that, and you just don't do that again.

  • Yup, yup. And it's like a statistical process.

  • Yeah.

  • Just to checkout

  • There's another thing too. I don't know if we spoke about this last time, but the other part of this whole thing is really like dialing in your funnel. And so one of the things that you learn the more you do this is like that, how all of these pieces are separate, but they're all interdependent on each other at the same time. So like you write a new ad and it gets new people coming through.

  • Different type of person,

  • Different type of person coming through, which then may affect the performance of certain pages in the funnel. So maybe certain pages weren't doing as well before and now they're doing better because it's different traffic coming through. But I had to adjust the message based around COVID and I had to really like revamp the landing page to make that just crush it.

  • I forgot that, you're right. We definitely, we really aggressively leveled up that landing page.

  • Yeah, landing page sure put proof on the landing page.

  • Are you still getting the interviews you do in front of people before you speak to them from paid ads?

  • Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's one of the main things I focus on is getting the customer interviews and those, the way it works is when somebody schedules an appointment from an ad, I send them an email. I'm still doing it manually. I mean, at some point that probably won't make sense, but still works great now. Sending them an email and I include like customer interviews and I'm really like, I have this like war chest of customer interviews now. And these things are like powerful man. Like some people will watch like five interviews before coming on a call with me

  • And they'll mention that on the call, right? They'll talk to you about it.

  • Oh yeah. And then like, yeah, again, just the difference that makes in closing a deal is it's massive. It can't be overstated.

  • And to me, like the way I talked to my clients about it, the idea is like leads are not found, they're made.

  • Yeah I like that.

  • So even if you have like all the different pieces, you've got the ad, you got the opt-in page, you got the value video, whatever you got all these touches, it's all about the quality of the touches, the content at them and how much those touches are massaging them into the right lead. And sometimes you have to do a little bit more work to massage them, right? If that makes sense. And so all this stuff we're doing is just kind of trying to like butter them up, polish them, shape them up so that when we get on a call with them, we have the best chance at seeing if they're a good fit and getting them to make a decision. If it makes sense for them.

  • Exactly right. Yeah. It's the point. They really are like, there's this, I was thinking about this earlier today. There's this misconception that like, there's good leads and there's bad leads, right?

  • Where are the good leads? Quality leads?

  • Exactly, right? I need the good, if I just had the good leads, then I'd be, and it's not the way you wanna think. You wanna think like they're just people in the niche and there's things I can do to warm them up. And there's things I can do to like, make them see the value on the call. That'll get them to buy. And if they don't, no worries. There's so many people out there and you just have to have that attitude. It's the most important thing.

  • And there are things that you can do or don't do that will make them cold as ice, like it goes both ways you could take that same person. It's like, oh, if I just not said that there's a good chance they would have bought, or if I just said not saying that, then maybe they would have not signed up, right?

  • Yeah, and you don't wanna like, obsess about that and like, let that hold you back. But you want to use that as feedback. You're absolutely right. Like, okay. Yeah, I went, I said XYZ and I'm not gonna do that next time.

  • It went sideways. Yeah.

  • That's right.

  • Yeah, well, cool. So what else? Is there anything else that's big that you've done to really get to that next level?

  • So we talked about mindset, we talked about paid traffic, talked about the interviews. Yeah, just being relentless, just being consistent every single day. And just having this attitude of just being like a high performing athlete or something, it's like getting your sleep, having your day dialed in having everything scheduled, being organized, like waking up, having a routine sitting down and just being locked in, just being focused and ready to go and eliminating all distractions and just focusing on the most important things. And that's you do that, That's you have to do that. There's no way around doing the work and. Yeah.

  • No.

  • Focused.

  • I think you're right focused. And I think you kind of going from 18 to 35, I just remember talking to you and you're like, I just got to make it happen. I just got to do it. Like there was this like switch and kind of almost like you burn the bridges, you're going forward. There's no turning back. And it's like, because you had that mindset of it will work, you made it work, right? You didn't fall back on organic. You didn't retreat to that. You made it work.

  • Yeah. There's literally zero doubt in my mind that this business can go to 100 grand a month or a million a month, right? And it just comes down to like forging the right path, creating the plan and then just executing on that. That's it. But I think having that attitude, and just knowing that, it just like, there's no excuses, you're just like, what do we need to do to make it happen? We're gonna make it happen one way or another. We just got to figure out what the pieces we need to pull together, or to make that happen?

  • What are the right steps in the right order?

  • Yeah.

  • And just do it. Exactly.

  • I love it man. So just to switch gears, can you just speak to Like, what it's been briefly, maybe some things that have been helpful about having me as a resource for you over the last couple of months?

  • Yeah. So I think, just your emphasis on proof and customer interviews and how to leverage those assets is massive. We talked about this last time, social proof. It makes things so much easier for somebody to make a decision to move forward with you. When they see that, when they see somebody else who looks like them, that's addressing all of their fears, all of their objections, all of their desires. And it's like putting their mind at ease. Like that's massive. So that has been a game changer for me. And that's something that I'm doing more now than ever, right? I think just like having you to mastermind with, and to like check my calculus and to get insights from you to do, have you thought about looking at it this way or pushing me to do things that maybe I wasn't, like there were in the back of my mind, like the pricing thing, but it wasn't that urgent. And then having a dialogue with you and you saying, hey, look let's look at the numbers here. Like I don't believe that I would have gone as far as fast, right? Had we not been doing those things. And yeah, I mean, I think the other thing too, is like, you have very technical mind being an engineer, which I think is an asset that makes you like really dangerous. Like I think it's a unique skill set that other people would be wise to take advantage of because it's kinda like Ray Dalio talks about when principals, right? Like triangulating with other believable people, right? And if there's other people that have strengths, you wanna leverage those things. And so like to somebody who maybe isn't necessarily as technical or doesn't think in that almost like programmer like way, it can be really powerful to have somebody on your team who's helping you out in that way. So I like that, that's been massive in just really being able to like break this thing down to the most fundamental level and then figuring out what levers to pull and what moves to make to attain the goal.

  • That's awesome, man. Now, I dig it. And I think you nailed it. I think I'm enjoying kind of being a sounding board for you figuring out basically it's like what to do in what order and how much emphasis to place on different things. Right? And just having other people, even like you have serious horsepower, right? You're no dummy, but it's still, we have inertia. We have blind spots and being able to have somebody else who cares about you, but they're not so in your business that they can be like, dude, why don't you just raise your prices? Why don't you just do this? And really put your feet to the fire and make it happen with you.

  • Yeah, exactly. That's a really, really valuable thing is you're absolutely right. We all have blind spots. We all miss things, and having somebody there that is an outsider that is like a third party observer on your business and can be like, no, no, no, no, no, dude, you're missing this.

  • Have you thought about this?

  • Yeah, and the thing is like, as a businessman, you have to be humble enough to be like okay, maybe I don't know, I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna try this thing. Excuse me. Even though I'm not 100% confident that it is the right thing to do, but I'm gonna do it anyway. And then it works, right? And it's just, it's a game changer for sure.

  • Nice man. So what's on deck for you next 30 days, 90 days, what do you have planned?

  • So yeah the goal for me is just keep scaling. That's just where I'm at today. It's just all about scaling and making sure that my customers continue to be happy. That's going well. I wanna make some, keep adding some things into the program to just keep improving results even more. Yeah. And I just wanna drive more appointments with paid ads, take this business to seven figures and yeah. Then figure out the next thing after that. So that's kind of like the 90 day goal.

  • Awesome. So Peter, if you have any advice, what would be like your number one piece of advice for coaches and consultants right now?

  • Like at what stage?

  • Hmm, good question. I would say folks that are making some sales, but maybe they're not doing 10K a month consistently yet. Maybe they're not doing 20K a month consistently yet. They're like in that early phase, they've got a couple of wins, but they're just not quite consistent with their revenue.

  • Yeah. So what I would say is, I think about this for a second, trying to get to 10K consistently, first thing would be like making sure that the unit economics makes sense, right? Like in the beginning, it's a no brainer to start just doing organically. And not just in the beginning, organic can scale as well, but for coaches and consultants that are kind of in that situation or that position it's really like, that's kind of the, that would really be like the first thing I would say is like you gotta have the pricing at a certain point to where it makes sense because if you're doing 10 strategy sessions a month and you're closing two, and you're only charging two grand, it's gonna be harder to get there, right? So, maybe raise your prices, okay? The point is make sure that the numbers make sense, make sure that you're charging enough money that it makes sense. And then I would just say, really be honest with yourself in terms of like, if the goal is to get to $10,000 a month consistently, how much outreach do you really need to do? How many people do you need to add a day? How many groups do you need to go in? How many people do you need to, how many posts do you need to comment on? And just put your phone on airplane mode, get rid of all the distractions. Don't have a million tabs open on your computer, just lock in, put your headphones in and just get it done. And if you do the work, it can't help but pay off because here's the thing that's so genius about the way that this stuff works is that it's iterative. So it's not just like, you do something, it doesn't work. And then it's done. It's like you're constantly getting feedback. You're constantly improving. You're constantly making changes. You're constantly getting better. And so there's really no such thing as failure. So if you don't do something and get it the first time, you just adjust it and improve, but you wanna make sure that you're being consistent and that you're charging enough money to where it's even possible to attain your goal.

  • I like it, man. I agree and I think it's interesting. I think getting to that 10K a month consistently is probably harder than going from 10 to 20 or 10 to 30. I don't know if you think that?

  • Do you mean going from zero to 10?

  • Yeah.

  • Yeah, it's definitely. It's one of the most challenging things, because until you've done that you don't really believe it's possible. This is the thing, right? And so you have to go up against that.

  • You're going up against that. You're going up all these things and then it's like all that work you did to get the 10K there's gonna be like a work that you did that didn't lead to revenue on the way to get the 10K, but then comes back around in month two, month three, month four, like there's this snowball effect where people take longer to nurture and stuff like that. And so you just get this, I call it the flywheel, right? Like the first spin, it's the hardest getting it turning, but then it just gets easier and easier to turn as you do the right things as well. If that makes sense?

  • Yep, 100%.

  • Awesome, man, all right. So Peter, if there's any photographers that are listening to this interview, if anybody's just curious about your story, like where can they go find out more about you online?

  • Yeah, the best place would probably be just to go to my website, peterbyramconsulting.com, or actually that's not really the best place, the best place you could shoot me an email there if you want, or you could go watch the free training and book a call with us. If it seems like a good fit and make sense. But what I would recommend is going to , you can just find me on Facebook at Peter Byram. You can add me as a friend, shoot me a message we can chat. And if I can help you, I'll tell you what that looks like.

  • Awesome, man. Well, Peter, thanks so much man. Can't wait to see what you do in the next few months.

  • Thanks a lot, Harry. We'll talk soon.

  • All right, bye.

  • Three, two, one. Hey, everyone, Harry Whelchel here. Today we've got Peter Byram from Peter Byram Consulting and we're gonna be talking about how Peter added 8,000 in revenue profitably with Facebook ads and video testimonials in the last 30 days, even in the midst of the Corona outbreak. All right? So I'm kind of getting ahead of myself a little bit. So before we get into that, why don't I turn it over to you Peter, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you do.

  • Sure, yeah, hey guys, my name's Peter Byram. I help photographers to grow wildly profitable businesses. And yeah, basically what we do is we help photographers to scale up with organic and paid methods. And we primarily work with photographers who shoot weddings, but also portraits as well. And yeah, we've just really focused on getting them a predictable system, kind of like a client acquisition machine in their business and some different traffic sources that they currently are, that they're not using yet or that they're not aware of.

  • Nice, nice. Okay, cool. So it sounds like you specialize in wedding photography and portraits. How did you guys decide to focus in on that?

  • Yeah, so it's interesting, I've always, I like working with entrepreneurs, creative entrepreneurs in particular, my background is in digital marketing. And so when I wanted to kind of go off on my own and look for a group of people that I thought could make a big impact with. And I saw that there was just a massive opportunity in this space where, people know that social media is something that they need to, that they should use in their business, but they just don't really know how or how to do it really profitably. And I knew that I could help them. And I just, I resonate, I connect a lot with them. I like helping entrepreneurs to grow. And so, yeah, that's kinda like how we got started doing this. And the thing with weddings in particular is that, so for anybody who doesn't know is like for photographers, that's like the high ticket thing for them, so like obviously like in the coaching or consulting world, people wanna sell high ticket courses, but in the photography world, selling weddings, they're high ticket. Some guys will sell weddings for 10,000 or $15,000 all set and done. So it's just a great way to really scale up their studio, and so that's kind of one of the things that we focused on with them.

  • And I think you were telling me, there are certain like weddings that really, really get people excited. What are the weddings that everybody wants to book as a photographer?

  • Well, they all like wanna like travel, it's really fascinating in this niche. Like how it's just one of the main characteristics of a photographer like just people just, they're creative. They love traveling. They wanna shoot at interesting locations with cool people. So that's really like one of the big things that we see across the board is booking destination weddings is kind of like the Creme de la Creme, if you will for photographers.

  • Are there any like really cool destinations, some of your clients have been to with your help?

  • Yeah, it's cool. Like we see guys, like one of my clients, he took a couple of trips in the last, he's been like back and forth to Hawaii over the last couple of months. And it's funny like he actually is looking at buying some real estate out there because he's been like shooting so much out there and we've got places like Aruba, obviously Europe is big, just kind of all over the country. People getting married all over the country. So those are like the big ones. Yeah.

  • That's cool.

  • right now, yeah.

  • That's really cool. So what makes you unique with helping your clients? Obviously it's social media, obviously it's the results you give them, but tell me a little bit more about that. What are you guys really good at in terms of helping them get more leads and close more business?

  • Yeah, so a lot of it is around like, it's kind of, well, there's a couple of like constituent parts to a photography business. You have really like lead generation, sales or conversions, and then you have service delivery, which is like the actual shooting, the session or the wedding, and then the fulfillment with editing and all that kind of stuff.

  • Following up with the bride after.

  • Yeah, delivering the finished product after the fact. And so what we really specialize in is helping with kind of the first two components, the lead generation and really tuning up the sales process because this is very often like the big opportunity for a lot of photographers. It's just like, they're awesome at what they do. They're amazing artists, They're geniuses when it comes to that, but then very often people get into this business and then find out that like, wait a minute, how come I'm not booking? It's kind of a shock very often to people that, just being an amazing photographer isn't really enough. And so we help them to put those lead generation systems in place as well as to really dial in the sales process so that they can work with more people and share that amazing work that they do with their clients.

  • And so it is like when your client is like blown away with working with you, is it usually the leads piece first? They're like, wow, I have so many more leads or is it like I'm closing more deals? Tell me more about that.

  • Yeah, it's both, it's funny. It's like generating leads and inquiries as it's referred to in the photography world is a big one, 'cause we're able to help our clients get literally hundreds of leads and I've had clients say to me, I can't believe the results that we're getting. Like they can't conceive of that because so often in this space, I hear it all day long. People are getting like five or 10 leads a month on a good month. And then there's a lot they're getting ghosted and there's just a lot of price shopping through these different platforms, like WeddingWire and the Knot that just like don't really lend themselves to building like building a really sustainable business the way they want to. So that's kind of the first thing is just, yeah, like the leads, it's just a massive thing.

  • Yeah, it sounds like with the leads, if you solve their pipeline problem, then they can have choice of the leads. They can pick out the higher ticket opportunities that they wanna work with. And it kind of solves the bottom of the funnel issues too.

  • Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then obviously, but that's only one component. And then very often what we see too is that sales processing needs to be dialed in as well. And we work with our clients to really get that humming along so that they can really get that ROI to, this is how we see guys like invest $600 in advertising and make 35 grand.

  • Right.

  • It's just these crazy returns that most people aren't seeing.

  • Right. Awesome, man. Well, let's go back. So you and I, we started working together about a month ago, so let's go back there. Tell me, like, what were you doing before working with us? How were you generating leads and growing your business?

  • Yeah, so my business was primarily, I was growing my business organically for the most part through social media, and it was going well, but I knew that it could be better. And so, yeah, I mean, we were just kind of connecting with people through Facebook and setting up calls that way and getting people signed up that way. But I knew that I really wanted to scale and that was gonna come through kind of automating that process to a large extent, as well as just sharpening up and making my funnel a really powerful asset. And so that was kind of where I was at when we start, when you reached out to me. And I think that was kind of the biggest thing that I was looking to work on.

  • Totally, and I think, I remember you mentioning like you were thinking about starting out with Facebook ads too, right? You'd been doing this organic outreach and posting content on Facebook and you had got enough clients to validate that your funnel was working and you said, you know what? I need to start testing out cold traffic as well. Is that fair?

  • Yes.

  • Cool, so yeah. Why did you feel, tell me more about that. Why did you feel like that was the time to start doing cold traffic?

  • Yeah, well, I really felt like I had a proof of concept and the results were there, and I really wanted to, that was the always the biggest thing for me was really wanting to get massive results for my clients, and so I was always super focused on that. And honestly, we were growing organically, I mean, things were going, we're moving, but I just wanted that exponential growth. And so, yeah, that was why, we knew that we had to start really focusing in on Facebook ads to be able to scale UP.

  • Nice, nice.

  • Yeah.

  • Cool. So what were you, before we started talking what was your plans just to kind of solve these problems, both improve the funnel and start going after Facebook ads. How are you gonna go about doing that?

  • Yeah, so, I had a funnel and I knew that I was gonna drive traffic to that through Facebook.

  • Why don't you actually tell people a little bit about your funnel, just like at a high level, the different pieces and how it works for those who don't know as much about funnels and the different ones that are out there?

  • So basically what we're doing is we're just driving people to a landing page where they opt in to get some value in the form of like, a video asset there where it kind of starts to solve their problem. And just, kind of I guess, resonates with them, what they're going through and then gives them some advice and starts to kind of solve their problem. And then if they want more help, they can book in for a call through a calendar scheduling software right there on another page. And then they fill out like a quick little survey, tells us a little bit more about them. And then a couple of days later we do the call. So that's how the funnel works and then we just drive traffic to that through Facebook ads.

  • Cool, okay cool. So that's the funnel and yeah. So again, how are you, before we connected? What was your plan to improve the funnel and improve Facebook ads?

  • Yeah, so I knew that that was the strategy that I was gonna do, but what I really wanted to do was I wanted to make it, like I really wanted it to perform well, So I hadn't really, I knew strategically how it was gonna work, but I wanted to get an ROI, quickly, I didn't wanna like have to blow a bunch of money on ads and go through all this crazy testing. And so when we started working together and you came to me and you were like, hey man, have you ever thought about using different video testimonials as kind of assets in your funnel to help with the performance of the funnel? And that made a ton of sense to me because I don't think it takes like a genius to figure out that having that social proof and having it come directly from your customer's mouths that like this stuff works. And people are over the moon with the results that they're getting is gonna help with conversions in the funnel. And then also on the sales call. And so when you came to me and you were like, hey man that's a cool, that's a great funnel that you have there. It makes a lot of sense, but here's how we can make it even more powerful and really get it to get this thing, just turn this into like a dangerous asset. I was like, yeah, man, I'm all yours. Like I definitely wanna do that. So, yeah.

  • That's awesome. That's really cool. So it sounds like you had a really good plan, like you had good idea about what you needed to do with the Facebook ads at a high level strategy wise, but you were nervous that there was a chance to like, you might not get an ROI, within a month that quickly.

  • Yeah.

  • Tell me more about that. Like why, what would have maybe prevented you from getting an ROI, even though you had a good strategy in place?

  • Yeah, and that's a great question. I mean, just 'cause it's new, right? Anytime you're doing something in the beginning, you're starting, you're learning something and, there's a learning curve, right? And so like, I think one of the things that you said to me early on is you were like, look man, like we can just, we can get this done way faster if we do it this way.

  • And it'll be more fun.

  • Yeah more fun, yeah. It's true that has been more fun too. Which is great, and it's 100% true, but obviously as a businessman, I know that it's cliche, but time is money and I wanna move quickly. Speed is something that I value a lot. It's one of the principles in my company that we try to move fast. We don't wanna wait. And so anytime a guy like you, when you came to me and you were like, hey dude, we can make this thing go way more effectively and faster. Your strategies makes sense on paper, but we can get the results even faster than, I don't, what's the word like, with a much higher chance of succeeding faster, right? Quicker. I was sold.

  • Yeah, I feel like I remember you and I, we talked about the strategy. You had the action plan and then, to you and I were pretty sophisticated marketers. It wasn't rocket science. It wasn't anything new, but I was like, I think I remember saying, okay, why don't we do A, B, C and D in the next seven days? And you're like, yeah, why don't we, let's just do it. And it was like having somebody that like set a timeline, set a deadline, get the momentum going and then giving you tons of feedback as we were working through this stuff.

  • Yeah, Harry, that's a great point, man. That's a huge benefit to working with you. Is that like, had I been trying to do this all on my own while simultaneously doing all my organic stuff, booking calls that way, selling people that way. There's no way I would've been able to do this in the amount of time and get it profitable as quickly as we got it, like to get this stuff built, tested, performing and profitable within less than 30 days amidst the COVID insane coronavirus thing going on right now. Like there's just no way that that would have happened otherwise.

  • That's awesome. That's cool, so let's actually step back a minute. So before we get more into that, how did you hear about me? How did we initially get connected?

  • So you actually, I think you friended me on Facebook and then show me a little video, like a quick like intro video through messenger and yeah, man, we just connected that way.

  • That's right. That's right, okay cool. I couldn't remember if you came in through an intro or if you introduced me to people, but you're right. I think, yeah I reached out to you directly. Okay, cool. Very cool. So let's talk about this. So, okay. What did we do together specifically first and just to jog your memory. I think what we did first was we set up some more customer interviews and got those going kind of walk us through, like what did we do together at a high level?

  • Yeah, so the first thing we did was we got the video assets, the video testimonials and customer interviews together. And that was huge. That has been like having a process to do that, like a step-by-step process for gathering those assets and how to do them and make them effective that alone has made a massive impact. So that was kinda the first thing that we did was gathered those together.

  • On that. What surprised you about that? Like it kind of seems like something that's maybe pretty easy to do. Were there any things that surprised you or like, oh, that was really important that we made sure we did it this way or like that was harder than I thought. Like anything that was interesting about doing your first few interviews?

  • Well, it's like anything, having a proven process is always gonna be more effective and efficient. So again, it comes down to that like efficiency thing, like trying to figure something out on your own over the course of how much time do you wanna waste on something? The other thing too is that, on paper sure you reach out to your happy customers and you just do a call with them. Right? But in actuality, even if you have happy clients, they're not, people feel awkward. Like they're not used to being on camera. They don't know what they're gonna say or how they're gonna come across. And so, you had a process for how to do this. Like you had an actionable step by step system that is battle-tested and that works so that I could just like, kind of, it's funny, we laughed about this, but it's almost like a funnel for getting your clients to give you a customer interview or a testimonial. It's like, you kind of lead them along, like just one simple little agreement at a time. And then next thing you have this really powerful asset that you can put in your funnel, drive traffic to, or put it in your automation or whatever, and just increase that show up rate, which I'm sure we'll talk about and everything, but yeah,

  • And they don't even realize it's, sometimes they don't realize it's this amazing marketing asset. It really feels like an organic interview. They're talking with you.

  • Oh yeah, no and it is no, it is though. And it's, the other thing that's cool is that it becomes this dude. It's such an amazing thing because what happens then is then you go into your so the way my business works is that we have a training program, right? So we have a customer community and I've been able to share those customer interviews with my clients in there as well. And it just serves to like motivate people, keep them energized, keep them excited, show up. And you said this early on too, which I think is 100% true. It's kinda like, you start to build this culture where it's like people wanna get that. They wanna be the guy or the person, who's got the amazing win.

  • That's a right of passage, like I'm gonna schedule my interview with Peter because it's now it's time to share the wins.

  • Yeah, exactly. So it's all of that.

  • That's awesome. Okay, cool. So we did got the interviews first and then what was next? Was I think next we, did we do the Facebook ads next? Yeah, we did the Facebook ads next.

  • Yeah, and I remember we just got that was going within, I think we got that done in less than a week.

  • It was insane,

  • So, yeah everything builds, angles written like, these...

  • All the tech, all the copy.

  • Yeah. Just everything built out and launched in like five or six days. And then, yeah, it was like testing for a few days, got everything optimized. And then within the next week they were producing. Like they were, what's the word it's escaping me right now. They were profitable, yeah so.

  • What, like going through, so there was like, when you're doing Facebook ads, you got to set up the tech, the tracking, the audiences, the ad copy. What kind of surprised you when you were doing that in terms of like, what was kind of the hardest part of setting that up in your mind?

  • It was just a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of different like, there's a lot of details with that stuff. If you don't wanna deal with the headaches down the line and be like, oh my God, I didn't set this up properly. And so now the data that we have isn't actually accurate and I have to run another like testing phase to see if anything's even really profitable. So there's stuff like that. You don't want to, there's just a lot of like details and there's a lot of like upfront work that has to get done. But the thing is that this is something that we worked on that you really helped me a lot with is that like you don't necessarily, like, everything isn't like equally as important, right? So like there were certain things that could hold off. And so we were kind of thinking about the funnel at a high level and what do we need to get built today so that we can go live versus, what are the other parts of the funnel maybe that don't need to be set up today in order to get the results that we want? So just that kind of thing, having somebody to like mastermind with and kind of look at the essential components to get built first. So yeah, I think that answers the question.

  • No, that makes sense. I think if I recall, I remember talking to you say like, man, wouldn't it be amazing if all you had to do was write the copy and do the targeting, but there's like all this other stuff around it. And I think we had a good relationship because I kind of, we paired on most things, but I kind of short-circuited a lot of the tech things and made it so that you didn't have to like rethink those wheels. And you had a lot of confidence that all the tech was set up. So then you could just focus on the copy and...

  • Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, like with your programming background, I don't know if a lot of people realize this, but like you're a software engineer, right? So that's a huge advantage to working with you as well that maybe you don't necessarily think about, but it's the honest to God truth that like, that's a unique skill set, right? So you bring that to the table and having, being able to set up all of this tech, just so naturally that just cut through a lot of the noise and got things done, like super fast, so that we, and we really optimize the hell out of this funnel, like really quickly with the automation and also like manual touches to be able to hit people with these video assets and testimonials, customer interviews, which again, just improve the overall performance. And I think really is why we've seen the results that we have as quickly as we have.

  • I agree. And I think, let's dive into that a little bit more here in a sec. I think the last question I have on the ads it's like, what were you most nervous about where you're like, oh, I think if anything's gonna go wrong, what piece were you feeling like maybe wouldn't work well? Like you're worried about like an ad angle not resonating or like you're worried that the audiences weren't right. Or any concerns or any of that?

  • Yeah, it's funny. I mean, you just don't, you have an idea of what's gonna work, but you don't really know until you test it. So I think, honestly, it was a lot of that or the angles gonna resonate.

  • Just the unknowns.

  • Yeah, exactly. Like are the audiences gonna work? Like a lot of that kind of stuff?

  • Yeah and so, okay. So we went live and I remember the day that we went live, you booked strategy sessions, right?

  • Yeah.

  • The first day.

  • Yeah literally we book like 24 hours, like people started booking, yep.

  • And so yeah. For people don't know strategy session, what we're saying, it's just a demo on appointment, like an hour session. Someone has watched his video got enough value that they're like, I don't know this guy from Adam, but I'm gonna get on a call and spend an hour with him, right? So that happened almost immediately. And we were both kind of blown away and really pleased to see that.

  • Yeah, and just in the first week, I think I booked like 13 strategy sessions or demos. Like we were booking for like $70 a strategy session.

  • Which is solid.

  • Which is like, yeah, seriously solid.

  • So then what happened? Like, so the first few days we did the ads, like coronavirus was a thing, but it really hadn't hit the US yet. Like the market hadn't crashed yet. It was like that next, was it that next Monday? Or do we have a whole week before it really hit?

  • I think it was a week. And then it, I mean, like you said, people were talking about coronavirus and it was a thing. It was kind of like, I don't wanna say as a joke. 'Cause that makes it sound kind of like callous, but it just like, then over the weekend, what happened was, yeah, like you said, like the market crashed and it became a bigger thing here. It was like a change kind of overnight. I think it was like that Sunday, Monday.

  • It Sunday and Monday of that week, yeah.

  • And so, we definitely noticed that the campaign was affected, but really we've kept booking calls and kept selling people.

  • Well, didn't we see, we saw the show up rate dropped, right?

  • Yeah, so okay. So we saw that was the biggest kind of funnel metric that was, I guess, struggling was the show up rate, which was funny, 'cause I didn't anticipate that. I don't think either of us anticipated that. That that was gonna...

  • That's not really an issue in organic, right? You don't. 'Cause if you're doing all that touching and you're warming people up, they're gonna show up basically.

  • Yeah, you're qualifying them. Like you've had these like quick chats and everything, they're seeing your stuff, right? But these are, when people come in through cold traffic ad, it's like, they're a stranger. They've opted into something they filled out a survey, but there's no attachment to you as a person. So that makes sense retrospect. But at the time, we just didn't really forecast that that was gonna be the issue. And so again, this is where the video testimonials and customer interviews were just massive because that's when we really started to put those into the emails.

  • Into the funnel right?

  • Yeah, in the funnel. So we started to like, when somebody would book a call, we kind of set up this system where we had like, people. So we, this is where we did a lot of the tech stuff with Zapier and I'm not gonna like get too into the details of the software or anything like that, but just the system so that we could follow up with these people and put the, keep showing them those video assets and those video testimonials and then the show up rate that went away.

  • Yeah, like, so we don't have to get into specifics, but I think did it almost double the show up rate, right?

  • Oh, yeah definitely. Yeah, it was like, it was crazy the show up rate was pretty low honestly. I think it was like 50% or something. And I think part of this has to do with the whole coronavirus thing and everything like that.

  • Totally.

  • But then as soon as we started with the testimonials and the customer interviews and that system that we put in, like everybody started showing up on the calls and it was just cool to see how right away that just completely stopped with that.

  • Yep, exactly. So like, yeah, the ideal show up rate is like 70, 80% show up rate is what you're looking for off cold traffic. So we basically got in line with that once we put those changes in place, even in midst of the virus. That's awesome yeah. And I think you told me like, tell people about, you get people on these calls and they would actually practically bring up your interviews, right? And the testimonials and stuff.

  • Yeah, it was really interesting. It was cool to see that, I would mention some case studies like on a call and the people be like, oh yeah, no, I watched that. I saw that like, and people watched like everything.

  • Lots of stuff.

  • Which was really amazing to me, yeah. Like they watched like four customer interviews. They watched the whole like, value video in the funnel. Like people watched everything and some of these videos they weren't, I was, I dunno, I was just, was surprised to see that We're talking about like 10 minute, 20 minute, 30 minute videos. People have the appetite for them.

  • Yeah, exactly. And I think part of the way that we wrote the copy in the different touchpoints was really powerful because it leads people to want to watch this stuff.

  • Right, so we use like headlines and things at different points in the emails, in your Facebook profile, on your website and things like that to entice people to click through and actually watch the testimonials. That make sense. Cool. So tell us about some of the results, like revenue, ROI, talk to us about that.

  • Yeah, so it's really cool. Since we started working together, we've added eight grant into monthly revenue for this month, and this is with like all again, the whole coronavirus thing going on. And so many businesses shutting down and people saying that nobody's doing business right now. And here we are just like, getting people signed up, making sales, just added 8,000, like I said, in revenue. And I think it's directly tied to everything that we've done, with the testimonials and just really kind of supercharging the funnel.

  • And not only adding revenue and just add like profitably, right? So like a lot of people are worried when they start with Facebook ads. Oh, how much test budget do I need? Like, I'm gonna spend all this money. And it's like, even in the virus, if you do things right, you can get profitable within the first month.

  • Yeah, no I would just wanna put that, that's eight grand in profit. Yeah.

  • Exactly that's awesome. So looking ahead, how do you see your business and your life kind of improving from here? What are you gonna, we've set up a lot of foundational stuff. What's ahead? How are things gonna keep going up from here?

  • So now I just wanna keep pouring gasoline on the fire at this point basically, it's like, I feel like in the first 30 days we got this stuff built, we got it really moving the way we want it to go. Now it's just a matter of ratcheting things up and really scaling. So I just want to keep optimizing, keep driving leads and yeah. Just keep doing more of what's working because it's working. So I just wanna keep doing more of it.

  • So yeah. We're gonna keep scaling the Facebook ads. We're gonna keep organic going on the customer interview side. You've got like four, I think four, like really with good ones. Would you wanna keep collecting them? Like why would it make sense to keep getting more proof from your customers that you deliver results?

  • Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean 100%. I wanna keep getting them and I'm fully intending on to keep doing that. You can't have too many of those things.

  • Why?

  • Easily. So the guy who has the most of those things wins, is the way I look at it.

  • Right.

  • It's the truth though. Like in this business that I'm in like this consulting, coaching, training program space, really nothing is more powerful than your customer's results.

  • Proof of results. Like you have to have documentation.

  • Exactly, like Facebook ads are just the vehicle to get the new prospect to see that thing

  • That you got results for somebody.

  • Yeah, exactly. So I just wanna get more of those. I just wanna have this fleet of customer interviews and customer testimonials right? And just keep hammering everybody in this space with those things.

  • And as you grow your business, like let's say you start working with people in Canada. Well then if you have customer interviews of people in Canada that do weddings, it's like people, they don't even recognize it, but subconsciously that will resonate more with those people. So you can't have enough.

  • Yeah, and that's the thing is like, I've noticed that too. It's like when you have these things, you can use them strategically. So if you're talking to a certain kind of prospect of particular kind of person, then you wanna show them an interview that kind of aligns more with them. Right?

  • Yeah.

  • And these are also really powerful for organic. I've noticed too. 'Cause like sometimes you'll be messaging with somebody and they're like, oh no, it's not necessarily a great time right now or whatever. And you can be like, hey, no worries at all, check out this customer interview I did. I think it's gonna really help you a lot. So they're kind of like, you can use them in a lot of different ways.

  • Nice, nice. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah, it's a really versatile asset and they're evergreen too. So as long as you keep the same offer at the same positioning, you can use them and use them as static assets in organic and in paid.

  • Yeah.

  • I like the word you used fleet. I always use the word war chest, but maybe I'll have to use fleet some it's like an army, like it's turning your clients into an army of marketers for you like a fleet.

  • It really is, yeah. Yeah. There's nothing more powerful than that is the thing.

  • So let me ask you this. Like why did you decide to do business with us? What motivated you and kind of kicked you over the fence?

  • Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, like your like thesis, like makes a lot of sense, right? So, and it's true. And it's proven now to be 100% true that having these different assets will help with conversions and they will drive sales and they will make your funnel more dangerous, right? So that's the thing, is like that's, when you said that, I was like, yeah, that makes total sense. And again, it's proven the numbers are there. It's proven to be true, which is the biggest thing for me, right? It's just being able to see the numbers. So when you have the data, you know it works like you just keep investing in it, dude honestly, this is kind of like a testament to you man. Like I think that you're smart, dude. Obviously I think that you have, being a programmer thinking in that way is really a valuable asset. And so when we connected, I was just like, yeah these everything that you are saying makes total sense. And I believe in you, right? That you're not like charlatan, you actually, you know that this stuff works. And again, it does. So that's kind of why, I think that answers it, right? Yeah.

  • Yeah, I think so. So what would you say to other people right now who are maybe watching this? Like, would you recommend that others work with us.

  • 100% man. Look, and here's the thing, like if you have some kind of online business, like whether you're a coach, if you're a consultant, if you're an agency, if you're selling some kind of product online and you aren't doing something like this, like this is just such low hanging fruit for you and your business, there's nothing like proof like this to help you to get more sales. Like I said a second ago, this is the whole game, right? All the fancy marketing stuff. And I'm a marketer, right? Like the coolest, like new tech and

  • Channel.

  • Yeah. Face whether, now it's YouTube ads. You gotta be all over it. Like all of that is completely secondary to having happy customers on camera, singing your praises and telling other people like them to pay you money. Nothing is more powerful than that.

  • 'Cause all these channels are just a vehicle to put that in front of them.

  • Exactly. So, yeah I mean, if you aren't doing this stuff, like you need to do it and do it with somebody who has a proven system that has done it successfully and yeah. Just it'll make you a lot of money. So it's like a no brainer.

  • Yeah, so like what, if there were specific types of coaches, consultants, agencies, who is this like just a lay up for if you could call on them?

  • Yeah again, I think if you are a coach, you're a consultant, you sell online, info products, courses. You're an agency owner. You got to do something like this. Totally yeah.

  • Cool, cool. So why should, if someone's on the fence right now and they're listening, why should they take action?

  • Why should they take action? Because the time is gonna pass one way or another. And if you're a business owner, like you have to invest in your business, like it's not gonna just happen. You're not gonna get to that next level for no reason it's gonna be because of some action that you took. And so don't wait, like if you wanna grow, if you wanna get more clients, if you wanna scale, don't let the time pass you by just get after it, and you'll see the results. So.

  • Yup, and I think I'd add like, no, I think you nailed it. I think you said it all. So that's great. So I think the last thing is Peter, like if people wanna learn more about you and your business, where can they find more about you online?

  • Yeah, probably the best way is just to get me on Facebook honestly, just search Peter Byram B-Y-R-A-M. And just add me, shoot me a message. Like I'd love to chat anybody who wants to scale their photography business, we're there, you can also go to peterbyramconsulting.com. We have a free training up there. You can check that out as well if you're interested book a call in and we can talk and yeah, that's probably the best way.

  • Awesome, man. Thanks so much.

  • It's been great Harry, talk to you soon, man.

  • All right, bye.

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