Student StoryOliver Hojas

Abstract · Switzerland

InterviewTranscript

  • Three, two, one, everyone, Harry Whelchel here, today I have Oliver Hojas back. Oliver, thanks for coming back to give a quick update. So, tell me what are we celebrating today?

  • So, we are celebrating that I made, in a little bit more than 60 days, 27,400 Swiss francs.

  • Selling your art.

  • Yes.

  • That's amazing, man, that's amazing. All right, so let's dig into this and talk about it a little bit more. So, last time we spoke you had sold a little less than 6,000 francs, 5,600 euros, something around there. What happened next after that? What are some of the wins? Walk me through in order, chronologically, what happened?

  • Okay, so that's basically when everything started. So I got one big sale and I think then the momentum came, so I really started to get excited and started to feel how it feels like to charge those high ticket prices, get paid and make people, even, happy. So, after that, on the weekend I made a sale, and they were all very close to each other, and then I made a big deal, and then I closed such-

  • Talk about that, you sold a couple of paintings in one deal, right?

  • Yes, so there was like a super special deal but I would never have been that courageous to make such a high price. So, this deal was like for a few paintings, they were like two big ones, two smaller ones, just like a combination and he really loved them, but it took a lot of courage to talk about the prices in this high level, and I just used what I learned from you, and so, in the end I closed the deal for 9,100 Swiss francs.

  • Has that sunk in or do you feel like that's unreal that, that happened?

  • It's still a bit unreal. I was so, so happy, it was crazy, so I never got so much cash in one go with doing something that I absolutely love. So, but when I think about it still like, wow, that's so cool.

  • What do you feel like? Yeah, so you had a couple of deals that came in really quickly after that first win. What were some of the things that you learned from me that helped you make those things happen?

  • Oh, that's a good question. First of all, yeah, the pricing, you told me very clearly the price I should ask for and I was still a bit concerned and questioning that. And I even told you, I think you said 4,800, I said, "Maybe we should do 2,800," or something. I just went lower, and you said, "No." I said, "Okay, I'll try." So, I would say that's the first thing. So I basically had the courage to just ask, I just did what you told me, I asked for the price, it worked out. So that was thing, the other thing is basically to connect with people. I'm gonna say with the one guy, I didn't need to do much objection handling, which is a luxury, it's amazing. But for other people I really needed to do some objection handling and we'll talk about the prices and they were a bit insecure. They were not sure, they needed to think about it. So, it's definitely like talking about the price, doing those objection handling without being freaked out because they need to think about or whatever, because it always happens, or let's see most of the time there will be objections. Then another thing is to-

  • So, it really comes down to just sales skills.

  • Yeah.

  • Why do you think you've gotten more comfortable doing that? I know like you've been practicing some, what else have you been doing? Why do you think you're able to be so comfortable so quickly?

  • First of all, I think it was a big desire to earn more, that's, I think, one of the biggest things, and then I was also willing to do what it takes. At the same time it's also that you gave me a structure, so you really said like, "Do this, that, and that," step one, step two, step three. So you really brought me always back to focus because I'm an artist, we get distracted.

  • Not just an artist, you're a splash artist.

  • Splash artist, you always splash around like chaos. So, this is really something that helped me immensely. You bringing me back to the focus and always saying what I needed to do, like really simple stuff, very simple, but you just need to know it otherwise you get so, fast, distracted. There's always so many shiny objects, so many things you could do, and then you miss the point. And that happened for me 2019 a lot. It was very, very slow and painful. Did many mistakes, I am. And also jumping on a call, not wasting time on Messenger or not wasting time, it's good to connect. But I named the price there, so I wanted to sell on Messenger which work very little. It's like it was, let's say from the people that came to me, it was like 2% or something, very small, and it was more luck game which was really, really annoying and I knew that's not sustainable. So it was more hoping that somebody buys, "What's the price?" "The price is this." And then most of them ignored me, that was really annoying.

  • So another insight was like, Messenger is useful to connect and build relationships but not for making the actual sale, that makes sense.

  • Exactly.

  • Was there anything else, any interesting takeaways from doing that 9,000 franc deal?

  • Yeah, there I needed to do some objection handling, it was really negotiation, and I stood my ground. This is the fine line which you are very good in and which you taught me, is standing your ground, having your offer and not going from here to here, you know what I mean? And not making it for free because the person cannot pay, for example, that will be like too much. But at the same time also, being there for the person, understanding the person, listening to the person and find, yeah, handling the objections with what you can do, not with what's not possible for you, if this makes sense.

  • It does, yeah, just like actively listening, having a conversation and not psyching out and just discounting yourself massively at the first sign of resistance, or friction, or something like that. And it also comes to mind, I think, I remember you talking about like, you used to sell paintings at lower rates and you get people in, still now, who want to get one of your paintings, but then you're, like, we talked about how if you start selling stuff at a really low rate to these people, then it will affect your ability psychologically to sell higher ticket to these other people. It's not really fair to the other people, and the more success you have at higher tickets, it snowballs and it gets easier to just keep selling at that point and realizing you don't have to always drop your prices to whatever the person on the call currently says they can afford or whatever, do you know what I mean?

  • Yeah, exactly.

  • So what happened next? So we did the 9,000 franc deal, what was your next deal?

  • 9,000, yeah, I think, then there was another guy. I was still testing. So I basically had a QuickChat, and I thought on the QuickChat, yeah, maybe he's ready, so after 20 minutes, I said, I was making the offer, which was just the testing. On the call it didn't work out. I thought let's just leave him, there are enough people. And then he came back to me per email and told me the price he can pay, he checked his finances. First of all, he said he cannot afford it, then he came back one week, or something, and I forgot him already, and then he said what he could pay. So, this was a good deal. I mean, it was with little effort and a still made-

  • It was within the range of what you thought was fair, basically.

  • Exactly, totally, totally.

  • So you had that and you had a number of other deals, I guess, later in that month, and then in the second month. I guess if you made 9,000 francs, how much did you make after 9,000 francs overall? I guess, I'm not gonna make you do math on the spot .

  • Let me check quickly.

  • It's like four or five more deals.

  • So, all together I made one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven, eight deals, yeah.

  • Eight deals, that's great. So, were there any highlights or interesting takeaways from all those deals combined? It'd be great to go through every single one, but I wanna be respectful of your time, and if there's any specific highlights that you can call out.

  • Again one example was that, like a lady, she wanted to really have a painting, but she stopped working for a while because of Corona situation. And it was actually present for her daughter. And I think I can say the price here because it was an old price actually before we worked, but it was, I reserved it for her. So she had no job and so on. So the price was 3,500 and she wanted to pay it in five installments with like a little dead pool. And so, the takeaway was really that don't overstretch yourself because if they keep doing stuff like that, at one point I don't have a business, I struggle at creating my business and having struggles with my finances and so on. So basically went back into the,

  • Conversation?

  • How do you say that?

  • Yeah and basically told her what I do and what I can do for her. And that's also what I filled out on your, what was this, the offer structure thing from you? So, this I filled out and that gave me clarity on what I can do, what I can offer, and where is the limit. So, I brought her back to what I really can do, what's my offer, I understand her situation, and she was totally happy to do that. So, and normally I would, of course, before working with you, I wouldn't have said, yeah, of course, I would be nervous and afraid that I lose the sale, and then I would do everything to get the sale, but so this was a big takeaway actually. Really go within your limits and like, say it in a polite way, but really say what you can do and try to make it happen.

  • Such a good insight, I love it, man. Anything else, any other takeaways?

  • Another thing is, I think, one big thing that I'm also now starting to get more and more is about building relationships, exactly, this was the point. So, actually, I was not really clear on one call with a guy. And I gave him this discount but it was meant just for this painting. So I was asking you if what I should do, after a few weeks he wanted to buy another one, then I asked you what to do. Should I go now to the normal price? Because there was no really clear and I was not sure if it felt right. And you basically made the point that relationships are more important. The long-term relationship that we built and the rapport, rapport, is this right?

  • Rapport, yeah.

  • Yeah, it's more important than the quick money, the 1,000 more, because it can, in the future, lead to much, much more.

  • Yeah, I remember you came and you were like, "I know I could charge this guy way more than I did, should I do it?" And it's like, he'll remember, don't burn the bridge and try to put all your short-term focus now. What if he keeps buying paintings every quarter from you?

  • Exactly, and he even said at the moment he has everything full but he's planning on buying another home and there he will need some more art, which is amazing.

  • Which is such a better thing, if you can get a couple of paintings from that than just being short-term focused.

  • Exactly, and I had that also before, I was asking you once, like I have a big painting, wanted to sell it for 25,000 to a specific person, but somehow it didn't feel right. And that's exactly, because this is a short-term focus and it's a short-term, selling once a bigger piece for much more money, this makes sense, and it's something like a new task, it's something new I need to learn.

  • It's a whole new thing and it's not like you just do it on the fly easily, if that makes sense.

  • Exactly.

  • So what else have you been working on? I think you've been doing a lot of interviews with people in your client base.

  • Yes, I asked people, like 95%, most of the people, I was super happy to do it.

  • How's the going?

  • Good, I did three by now, And I must say I really like them, it's fun. People are even grateful that they could talk to me, that we could have the interview. And they felt really good, and it's amazing. And I must say, before working with you, it was in your offer with the help of happy clients. And I was like, yeah, I leaved it out, I just take what I needed and leaved it out. And so I was very nervous with the first interview, but I saw first that, yeah, it's a really cool thing, actually, it's amazing.

  • Have you gotten any leads off of any interviews yet?

  • So, I just published two and I have a lot to do at the moment with my day job, which by the way also ends in July because now I can live from that and this is also an exciting thing. I got one yesterday, I think, or today he wrote, he commented with the hashtag that we always have and so I'm checking right now with him. So, I'm in the process to see who he is and connect to him, yeah.

  • It's great, no worries at all. So we've gotten some engagement but we really gotten leads, but it just goes to show you have a big network, you have personal relationships, and it's just been applying the sales skills and the pricing techniques that I teach you that you've gotten these wins. We haven't even gotten to organic cold lead generation yet.

  • Exactly, exactly, exactly. I'm doing it with the time I have right now because I'm still working in the shop and it's still very intense, especially right now. But I'm doing it in the morning and I feel already like I connect with people and it's really cool, I really love it. Yeah, it's fun, it's really fun.

  • It's pretty natural, right? It doesn't feel forced.

  • Exactly, and as I start to really get into the flow.

  • So what's ahead for you in the next 30 to 90 days.

  • So now we have like July already. So yeah, in the end of July I will be a full-time artist and then I will have more time for, really, focus on everything you teach me. So, I definitely want to get good in cold leads, organic leads, and really invest in the morning time, go in a coffee shop, have my coffee, and then focus, I'm so excited for that. And then, yeah, basically getting organic leads, doing those sales, and my goal is to make at least like 10,000 per month, that's the goal.

  • Incredible for you .

  • It's crazy, I never earned so much never. It's still crazy to think of actually.

  • What is it gonna mean to you to be doing this full time, in a month?

  • A lot actually, because I felt I always wanted to do my own thing. I knew that very early, I'm an entrepreneur, I was a rebel, always, I never liked if I had a boss and he told me what to do, or she told me what to do, I never liked it but I didn't know how I will get there. I knew I wanna be an entrepreneur, I tried it twice. Once I went to be a photographer, didn't work out, because I just lacked the skills, I lacked the confidence, so I couldn't even go out, talk to people because I was so shy. Then the second time, artist, when I started was too early. No idea about pricing, no idea about business. So, it means a lot to me because now finally I feel like, the freedom that I wanted to have, doing my own thing, having my own schedule, also making as much money as I actually want to because now I am deciding how much I put in and how much I get out. So yeah, for me it means a lot and I'm super excited.

  • I'm excited for you. I think you have all the pieces and you're gonna do great. I can't imagine you're gonna go from, what are you spending like 60 hours a week on your work, your job, 50?

  • Maybe 50.

  • 50, and you get 50 hours back. Think how you're gonna be able to apply that well, it's amazing.

  • Yeah, probably it's even more because sometimes weekends, but yeah, it's a lot of time, exactly, and it's so cool.

  • So Oliver, this has been great catching up, love the update, can't wait to do another one with you and I'm sure in a month, or whenever we get the next win. So let me ask you, would you recommend others work with me?

  • Yes, for sure, everybody. I have friends that I'm talking to, they're trying to do their own business and I have this feeling, I wish for everybody who has their idea, wants to be a coach, or whatever they wanna do, I really feel like, hey, you need to talk to Harry because it's possible. I never imagined it would be possible and, actually, that easy, because it's quite easy, well, let's say simple, but you need to put in work.

  • It's not easy, it is simple, it's not rocket science.

  • Exactly, so this makes me realize everybody can do it, and you're very good in giving the steps, and the clarity, and the focus, and you make it very, very simple, and it's doable. It's not like some people they give like tips that, in the end, you're more confused, you're not really sure what to do. And when I talk to you it's super clear. So, I definitely recommend that to everybody.

  • Nice man, I appreciate that. Well, who do you think we're especially a good fit for?

  • So, I would say like all coaches, consultants, I would also say people who try to, they have a talent, and they wanna be a coach, but they're not quite sure how to get there. I think also them, because it's quite simple and yeah, they just need to do the certain things. And as well, I would say now, because I'm the proof, Also artists, artists that wanna sell a high price art, that's also a good fit, I would say.

  • Great, and I was gonna even ask you like, yeah, you're an artist, and you've really been taking these like consultative approaches and that's why you been getting this success. Let's dig in a little bit more, if there's an artist that's watching this, what sort of milestones do they need to have hit, in your opinion, before they were a good fit to work with me? What are some things that they need in order before they reach out to work with me?

  • So, when I reached out to you, I already sold my artworks. And I sold them already like for 1,250, 750, prices like that, which was quite good. So, I proved that people buy my art, and I had enough to sell, of course, I had my art, I had lots of art to sell, ready to sell. So, I would definitely say maybe some proof that they can sell it.

  • I think so 'cause I don't know enough about art to judge who's art is good, but when you told me that you had sold some for over a thousand euros multiple times, I was like, cool, I know that I can help you triple, quadruple your prices, whatever, and fix your sales process and I can help you. But somebody who is even earlier, it's really, really hard for me to judge. I think that's a huge, they can sell their stuff for at least a thousand bucks a couple of times then they're a good fit, a really, really good fit.

  • And you said you cannot judge the art. But the funny thing is that the art doesn't need to be that great actually. And I'm still figuring out, I'm sometimes, so is my art great? I'm not so sure because I'm always getting better, always trying, actually, with my art I'm just me. So, I think I just had the confidence to also put a like a higher price, like a 1,000, 1,500, own it, and people were ready to buy it.

  • I think your art is good, and people being willing to pay a lot of money or meaningful prices for it isn't the only like sign that your art is good, but it is one sign that points toward your art being objectively good. And so I think you're probably too close to it maybe a little bit of imposter syndrome, but I wouldn't sell yourself short. .

  • Yeah, sure, no, it's actually true, when I look back, I had those universe paintings and they were hard for me to sell. And it's still now, people not often buy them. They go more to my later paintings, the splash paintings and so on, yeah, it's true.

  • So, if someone's listening right now in the audience, why should they take action right now?

  • Because, what are you waiting for? It's the same for me, I was waiting for so much, I was like waiting until I got ready. So, I had a full-time job, I'm like, I'm too busy, I need to be first this, I need to do first this, blah, blah, blah, and when you came, I was just like, come on, what do I wanna wait for? I wanna get going. So, if you wanna move forward, and if you have enough from your old life, from trying it alone, from always struggling on your own then you should definitely take action now.

  • Fantastic, so what's your number one piece of advice for coaches and consultants?

  • I would say my number one advice. It's a very good question.

  • And that can change over time, what is it right now? At this season that you're in?

  • The number one advice, I would say for me, it's still like having a coach, having a coach who really knows how it works, who can give you the exact steps, I would say that's what you need, that's my number one advice, because everything else comes after that but if you have someone who can guide you, like you, I would say that peace of mind, you don't try to figure it out on your own, you really can focus, you can ask, if you have a question you can ask and the coach clarifies the questions. Like it's like this, you say, "Okay, great," you execute on that and it just makes the path clearer. So, it's definitely, get a coach, that's it, yeah.

  • I love it, man, that's great. And I remember, last time we talked, you also mentioned about how you like really wanna learn to fish rather than just get fish. Extending that metaphor, do you feel like you're like learning more and more how to learn, how to handle more issues that come up on your own as we work together?

  • For sure, because in the beginning we had more calls together, I needed more help. I had lots of questions and sometimes I didn't think for myself, which was also that an issue for me before. Because there was a reason that I couldn't make it, because I couldn't really think. I was just doing old habits, old stuff. And so you definitely teach me how I can think, how I can ask the right questions. I'm still trying to get better, it's already much better, and I see the fruits of it. I start to feel like an entrepreneur, really sitting down, like, "Okay, I have, now, this problem or this thing." And then my mind starts to connect dots and suddenly I see a clear thing.

  • You're starting to develop some real judgment and wisdom that you can then apply in new circumstances, new situations you haven't seen before and get good outcomes.

  • Yes.

  • Awesome man. So dude, this has been great, thank you again so much for your time. If people wanna learn more about you, where can they find out more about you online?

  • So they can go either to Facebook, Oliver JanDaniel Hojas, or my website, Oliver Hojas.

  • And how do you spell the website?

  • It's O-L-I, is it I? V-E-R then H-O-J-A-S.

  • .com.

  • .com, yep.

  • Perfect man, alright, well thanks again so much, Oliver, really appreciate it, and yeah, let's keep rocking.

  • Yes, thank you so much, Harry.

  • All right, bye.

  • Bye.

  • Three, two, one, Hey, everyone, Harry Whelchel here, today I have Oliver Hojas, and we're gonna be talking about how Oliver generated 6,000 francs in sales selling amazing abstract art in the last 30 days. And I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, before we get into that, Oliver, why don't I turn it over to you? Could you just take a moment, introduce yourself and tell everyone a little bit about your business.

  • Okay, thanks Harry, thanks for having me. So, I'm an abstract artist, as Harry said, and for me, I started painting four years ago and I was looking for a way how I can sell high priced art. I knew it was possible but I was not really sure how, and I sold some art for very good prices, but just here and there and I couldn't make it consistent, but was actually looking for somebody who can help me with a system that I can use every day and can make sales with my art, with my passion every month for some good cash in my pocket .

  • That's great, so how did you get into art? Tell me more about that.

  • Yeah, four years ago, I read a book about creativity and this book inspired me to paint. Before that I was a very creative person already then, but I did more dancing, I played guitar, singing, but never really painting. So after this book, I started painting on paper, and then on small canvases, and I was so inspired and so excited about painting that I started very fast to paint more and more and bigger paintings. And I just fell in love with art and painting. I found a new purpose, a new mission, and at one point I realized, this is really the thing I love the most. It's so natural and easy for me to paint, and there are so many ideas. So it's for me, something I could do forever, basically.

  • That's awesome, man. Did you know right away that you wanted to do abstract art or how did you decide to focus on that?

  • That's a very good question. So, in the beginning I felt I wanna do more, something abstract, but also tried to do, for example, the yin yang. So where I need to be very detailed with the circle and very fast I realized that I don't like that because what art gave me is a space where I can express myself freely and can be just who I am and not be judged from myself and anyone else. So to have the ying yang, again, it brought me back to this mind space where I started to judge, it's not perfect, the circle was not perfect. My mind couldn't stop looking at that and judging it. So this played a role for me to realize that I actually just wanna do abstract art. Just like splashes, playing with colors, because there's no right or wrong and I really can express myself freely. So I realized that very fast, that I wanna do obstruct art, yeah.

  • Okay, cool, and are there certain like systems or approaches to making an abstract painting or is it really free form? Do you experiment with different ways of making abstract art?

  • Yes, I see myself in a state where I just love to experiment and really try with different things, different colors, different movements, different structures. But at the same time there're a few paintings, or series, how I call them they're are very similar like the blue paintings, where I use similar techniques or a similar blue, and you see they are coming from the same person, the same artist, and it was also something I decided to do to really have a series. But I really enjoy to experiment and do new stuff so it gives me a lot of pleasure.

  • That's super cool. And is art something that's more of a personal individual practice for you or are there other artists where you live or in the broader abstract art community that you're in conversation with, and you're seeing what they're doing, and getting ideas and responding to that?

  • Yeah, there're definitely some. I started basically on my own just figuring stuff out, trying new things, and then very fast I got inspired from an artist that I met in Zurich, which is already super, super successful. And he also inspired me then to paint blue because I was super fascinated with his paintings which are all blue and I love the color blue anyway. So I was so fascinated and inspired that I really painted a lot blue. This changed now. And for my style, I'm basically, I'm just looking a bit on Instagram, on YouTube sometimes and just let myself be inspired. And then I feel like I process it, and then on one point when I have the empty canvas this comes all together and creates a new piece of artwork which is, of course, also inspired from other artists or things in life, nature, many things, actually, many things inspire me to paint in a certain painting, yeah.

  • Cool, do what sort of things are inspiring you right now at the moment? What type of paintings are you working on now? If you can share.

  • So at the moment, that's a very good question. I'm basically trying to do more smooth movements. I was used to do a lot of splashes where either I take the brush, put it into color, and start to make splashes all around, basically uncontrolled, and that was a lot of fun, and it also made me excited. I really felt awake and excited, and now I'm looking more for paintings where I can be smooth, I can like have a bit more time with the painting and try different color combinations and see how they go and merge together. So yeah, at the moment I'm really doing more of that. So less splashes, less of this excitement and craziness and more of this calm way of painting, this inspires me at the moment very much.

  • Amazing, is that one of yours behind you right now?

  • Yes, exactly.

  • Would you consider that one of the more smooth paintings?

  • Kind of, I would say this is a mixture. When I moved from the splash painting to the more calm, it was in between, it was a starting point of the more smooth ones, but I couldn't really make the transition because I'm also expressing who I am and how I feel. And the time when I've painted a lot of splash paintings, I just felt a lot of stuck energy that I wanted to get out. And this is why I love too much to do splash is because I could get everything out on the canvas. And it was kind of a mixture. So, down below you don't see that here, but there's more the splashes, and as before it was a lot of splashes, and then on top I painted over it. This was, of course, a bit more calm, but you also cut into it with a knife, so it is a mixture.

  • Yeah, tell me more about that. So it's like, do you play with the actual canvas and cutting holes in it? Is that something that you're experimenting with as well?

  • Yes. Yes.

  • Tell me more about that. What's the idea behind actually breaking the canvas in that way?

  • I must say it was very spontaneous. I saw the canvas, I hated the painting and I just wanting to cut into it.

  • You didn't like it.

  • Yeah, you see, sometimes they don't like my paintings, and then I just try to do something new, try to do something different that might bring something totally new. And this was actually not the first one, this was the second one I cut in. The first one was a green one, green and golden, a mixture, which I call now monster piece actually, and I really cut into it because I didn't like it in the beginning. But then when I cut into it, I saw, wow, that looks amazing. That's again, something special, something that I never have seen before and things like that inspire me. When I see something new, that's for me something inspiring.

  • And so now that you've cut into this one, do you like it more? Have you recovered it? Is it something that inspires you?

  • Say that again.

  • Now that you've cut into this painting, do you like it better with the cuts?

  • I do, because it really gives something special.

  • I think it makes it more textured, it has more depth.

  • Exactly, yeah.

  • That's amazing, well, cool. Well, let's go back to the beginning of us working together. What were you doing sales wise before we were working together?

  • Before we were working together. So, 2019, I had a time which was quite okay, but still I made within six months, 15,000, which was basically the starting point where I really got excited and really realized that I actually can make money with art, and I also wanted to make money with art. And then in December I had a break, I really took a break from everything, from work, my art, which then led to not being sure anymore how to go back up. So, I was there and was not sure what to do, I raised my prices very, very high, I wasn't really confident enough to charge, I didn't know how to. And it seemed like the old strategy that I used to, which is posting on Facebook forums, and then getting messages and replying them on Messenger, so instead of trying to get them on a call, I messaged them and I gave them the prices immediately, which worked out maybe 1%, 1% of the leads, I got a sale, it was more a luck game. And at one point I just realized I don't wanna do that, I really wanna have a system and I wanna be good at making money with my art. And so, that I need to consciously have a system that I practice every day, and that makes me money.

  • So it sounds like what you're saying is you wanted to raise your prices, so you did that, and then you were posting art that you had painted on Facebook and people would message you. And what was typically the first thing they would ask you in Messenger?

  • Immediately like, "I like this painting, what's the price?" That's mostly it, yeah.

  • And then what would happen when you'd share the price?

  • Nothing, silence.

  • They would go away. And so that wasn't working, obviously.

  • Exactly, it was really, it was a luck game and I had a friend, she's also an artist and she did the same. I have this actually from her, but she said sold way under my prices. And it looked like for those prices, it works better, but I just didn't wanna sell my art for those prices. It was too low, it would be painful .

  • So did you try anything else other than that, or was that the only thing you were trying to generate sales?

  • I also talked to friends, people that knew me, I reached out to them, I called them. That also worked actually quite well. Yeah, the prices was definitely cheaper than now but it still worked, but of course not that much.

  • Sorry to cut you off, what were you saying?

  • I said, it worked, but not as much. It was not a consistent thing that I could do each month again, and again, and again, it was more sometimes having a good conversation, and then, yeah, selling the art piece.

  • So, every once in a while a friend would buy one but it wasn't predictable.

  • Exactly.

  • So, how frustrating was all this? How frustrating was it to get? You told me how many likes or comments you would get sometimes on your posts?

  • Like 100s, 200s.

  • And then you still couldn't make sales.

  • No, no.

  • What was that like? Very frustrating actually, because I saw all those leads, this potential and I couldn't convert them. So, it felt not good, I felt, quite frustrated, yeah.

  • Okay, so where did you first hear about me?

  • I heard about you from a program that I'm doing, which is from the,

  • Some private Facebook group?

  • Exactly, and then you approached me and you were really, really kind, you really helped me, so that's how we got in touch.

  • Okay, so do you remember more about how we got in touch?

  • You commented on my post in this private Facebook group, and after that we connected on Messenger.

  • What were you asking about in the post?

  • I'm not sure anymore. Probably something, ah, it was about my niche, probably about my niche.

  • It was maybe a niche, I think it was about your website, and you want wanted someone to do sales for you?

  • Exactly, that's it.

  • You want somebody to do sales for you.

  • So, actually, it was sales with me. I wanted to create a program for artists where I teach them the mindset, and then I have a partner that teaches them the sales and marketing, that was actually the idea.

  • That's right, and so, okay, that's how we first connected. And then we got working together and we decided instead to work on you selling your own art first and focusing on that. So, going back to the last 30 days, what did we first do together that was helpful? Do you remember?

  • So, of course, the course I had with you, they were really into the detail, working on the sales script, super powerful for me, learning how to connect to people on Facebook Messenger and to do the QuickChats, the QuickCalls first, and also how to bring them to a call, how to connect to them on the Messenger, and then bringing them to a call and go further.

  • So, we worked on your sales conversation and we worked on Facebook Messenger, bringing people down through that to QuickChats. Yup, that's right.

  • Yeah, also you told me what to do when I had a sales conversation the next day and you recommend me to take one price for all the big paintings, which I thought this is crazy because every artist has different prices for each painting. And so I was thinking, yeah, how can I say that? How can I make people understand that all the paintings aren't the same price? But then I tried, it felt uncomfortable, but it was good because yesterday, was it yesterday? Yes, yesterday I sold a painting for this price which is way higher than I ever charged so far, and that was because of the conversation we had.

  • So, let's talk through this. So that painting, do you mind sharing what you sold it for?

  • Yes, sure, so I sold it for 4,000 Swiss francs.

  • Great, and that's the most you've made for any painting so far? Is that correct?

  • Yes, for one painting, I sold two paintings as a package for 6,000, which could be 3,000 for each. So for one painting, it's the most, yeah, definitely.

  • For people who are thinking about selling things at a higher price point, what were some learnings you had from that process? What were your takeaways from being able to do that?

  • I would say biggest take away is that it doesn't really work to immediately tell the prices on Facebook Messenger. It might work if you sell something for 400 bucks, maybe 200, 500, I don't know where where's the limit, but I believe the limit is an eight, 900. So, if you wanna sell things for higher prices you need to get them on a call and you need to talk to them, you need to connect to this person and then feel if it's the right fit and ask them questions about them.

  • Yup, and do you feel like, so you're selling art, it's not consulting strictly, but how is like thinking about things from a consultation perspective, being a consultant and helping them solve their problem? Tell me more about that. Has that helped you make these sales or have better conversations?

  • Yes, for sure, because as consultant you ask them questions. So I learned how to have a conversation, how to ask them questions, and that really helped me. Because before I was more focused on my art, talking about my art, talking about myself, and I didn't really know what to ask them because for me it was like, it's a piece of painting, you see it, what should I ask you? So, it shifted my mind and I realized that I need to ask them, actually, a lot of questions like you do if you are examined, if this is the right fit for your service, if you can help this person. So I'm doing, actually, something very similar, it's very similar. I help them, they are looking for art, they have an empty space, they want something where they can connect to something valuable, not just something from IKEA. And I am an artist I'm painting original paintings and I'm the one who can help them to solve this problem and fill this empty space, basically.

  • Totally, so, let's talk about the QuickChats for a second. We're still working on that, but tell people about there was one guy who reached out to you recently 'cause you posted something on your wall. Tell people, what did you post that was different? And then what was different about this guy's first message that he sent to you? Do you know what I'm talking about?

  • Yup, so, what I changed from my posting is instead of showing the art that is available I showed the art that was already sold, like pictures with people that bought the painting for me. And the message that he wrote me was different in a way that he didn't ask for the price firsthand. He was asking if I could create something like that for him, as well, it looks nice. So, and then it was then of course much easier to go from that place to, yeah, let's discuss that on a call.

  • So how did that feel?

  • It felt good, because when people ask for price, mostly, they just wanna know the price, that's all, they're not really interested in buying. But for me it always felt, oh, wow, somebody's asking for price, they might buy it, but they just wanted to know the price and then move on, most of them were not really interested.

  • So when I encourage you to do that and change that strategy up, did you have any doubts or concerns that it would work or did you just think it would work right away?

  • No, so I got the point, why it could work, but I was still questioning, why should I do that? So, at first, in the very beginning I was even thinking to not show my sold art works so people just see the ones that are available. So, now I realize that's actually not the way how it works. It's actually good to show that the work that is sold, it's even better, actually.

  • Much better .

  • So, I actually it's like for consultant testimonials, like happy clients. My sold artwork is basically happy clients, otherwise you wouldn't buy it.

  • Yup, social proof.

  • Exactly.

  • So just all in. So, how much have you sold in the last month? You sold...

  • Altogether it was 6,000.

  • Yup, and do you know how many calls you've had with prospective clients? Collectors, prospective collectors?

  • You mean sales calls?

  • Yeah.

  • I'm not so good at that, there were a few, maybe let's say-

  • Five?

  • Six, seven.

  • Six, seven?

  • Yeah, maybe more, six, seven, eight, something like that.

  • So, what do you think is in store for you in the next 30 days?

  • So in the next 30 days I would like to make 10,000 per month. And, I think, now seeing that I made 6,000 and that I'm able to do it. And when I get better in sales, I will be definitely able to make 10,000 because people are buying it and people are loving my art. So it's definitely my skills to be on the call and sell them the painting. It's this skill that is really important, so that's my goal for next month.

  • So yeah, if you could summarize it, what areas of your life have improved so far?

  • My financial definitely, as well, I'm more confident in talking to people. I think that's a big thing because I was still a bit shy talking to people on a phone call. Actually always avoided it and hoped that there is strategy where don't need to go on a call with people to sell my art, and also was looking for different ways to sell through other people, sell through galleries, which is all good and nice, but it shouldn't be your main focus because then you're not in the control, you give other people the control, and then again, it's very unpredictable. So, I think I'm more confident and happy. And here also, I'm confident and happy talking to people, I'm clear about what I need to do, what are the next steps, what I need to focus on.

  • Do you feel like you better understand how people behave, how people tick, like you understand the human condition better?

  • Yes, for sure, yeah. I see how the conversation goes when I ask them questions. That most people, basically 99%, they love if you ask questions, if you really can lead the conversation which I was a bit afraid of before. I was afraid to ask too many questions, to lead the conversation, I felt like I might aggressive or something was holding me back to do that. Now I really see that actually people love that, and it's fun because you really, really build relationships and you take control of that and you not just leave it to the other person and think, hopefully, you're lucky that this person is a good person.

  • So why do you think your financial situation, your confidence, your focus, why have all those things improved?

  • Yeah, of course, because I sold my artworks now, I made money. And also because I know that I can do it. I know that I can work with somebody like you, who helps me, who gives me the tools and the systems that I can use to make more money. And yeah, I think the greatest thing is not even the cash I got now, but the ability to make money actually, because then I can do it every month, again, and again, and again, and again, and this is my goal and I just see it's possible now. I feel like I had this number 10,000, already, very long in my mind, I had written it out, but now I'm seeing really I'm going closer and closer and I see it's possible.

  • So, the biggest benefit for you or the thing you're most excited about is learning how to fish, learning how to go out there and get sales, not just the sales that you've made so far.

  • Exactly.

  • And I think it's a testament to you Oliver, at the end of the day you've done a lot of work, you've put in time, you've been practicing, tell me more about that, you've been putting in real effort to make this happen.

  • Yes, for sure. I have a day job still where I work even long hours until eight, nine, sometimes even still working a bit at 10 o'clock in the evening. And I was waking up earlier to go through the things that I learned, and I had late calls with you many times, there was talking to people, I really did a lot. For example, I didn't watch any Netflix, or stuff like that because this would take time away. And I really invested all my time into getting skill of selling and becoming a bad ass artist .

  • Yeah, and would before this month, a lot of times people think, oh, I just got to get better at my craft. I got to get better at art and then people will pay more. Do you now, what do you think about that opinion? Is it important to get good at sales?

  • So, let's say to this statement, that you need to get better at your craft, on one hand it's true, on the other hand it's not true that you get more money, I would say that's bullshit. In terms of that. With my art, people could could fight, some people say like, this could pay the kid, and others they love it, they just feel attracted. But I'm not a master, and I think getting better at your skill or at your craft comes naturally, but you need to learn sales for sure, 100%, because those are people skills which is so much more important than your craft. I really see that, yeah.

  • Well, it's like sales is applied communication. It's like, if you cannot communicate the value of your craft, it doesn't matter how valuable your craft is.

  • Exactly, yeah, I was talking about my art which I couldn't do before, and that's not that everybody, they should see how valuable it is, they should see how nice it is, but they also wanna know what I think about it, what I see in it, what I wanna express with it, then that's again, that's also communication and people skills, basically.

  • Yup, so going back to art sales conversation, why did you decide to do business with me?

  • So, I decided to do business with you because I felt like you really know your craft . And you're really good at that, what you're doing, like marketing, sales. And I also felt you were very simpatico.

  • Simpatico.

  • Simpatico, and I just felt like, yeah, I felt like you're an honest person, you really do that professionally, you know what you're doing, you're a cool guy, and it just felt like, yes, I would like to work with you.

  • And at the very end of the conversation, what kicked you over the fence, so to speak?

  • What does that mean exactly?

  • So, did you have any doubts or any hesitation? What kicked you over the fence in the face of that?

  • So, yes, for sure. I had that because they never really invested into a life coach for one month, and yeah, I was wondering if this is the right thing, and if you could help me with art, because art is not really consulting and you're in the consulting lesion. And on one point when I was talking to you and also telling you those concerns, you basically made me realize that this doesn't really matter that much and you still can help me with all the marketing skills, sales skills and that this is similar, very similar to consulting, and you really showed me a plan. I felt like you were listening to me and you show me a plan of what I want to achieve and how I can achieve it working with you, which I found actually great because you really showed it to me visually. And I believed you would really put as much time and effort into really help me, and in the end you really did, and I really got some good sales, and actually, more than I thought. I exceeded my goal, the goal was way less and I'm way over it, which is cool.

  • All right, so we just had some network difficulties, we are back now. So Oliver, I was asking you, would you recommend others work with me?

  • Yes, for sure, 100%, yeah.

  • Why is that?

  • Yeah, because I think you're really, I never had anyone that gave so much. You were really there for me when I got questions, when I needed something, you were going with me deep, you were answering all my questions, but also teaching me how to think on my own, how to think in a way that I, next time, don't need to ask the same questions anymore, which is again, learning how to fish instead of giving me the fish. And, I feel that you really know what you're talking about, I feel you're really good in what you're doing and in the end it just worked. The result is the proof it worked working with you. I made money, and I'm sure I will make more money .

  • So, who do you think we're a good fit for?

  • Yeah, I would say first of all, of course, everybody that is like a coach, a consultant, in the expert business, trying to sell their program, their service, but actually also people like me, artists who wanna sell high price art. I think it would help a lot of artists, actually, because I don't think many artists do what we do, many shy away from that, and many looking more at ways to sell their art in an old school way, kind of. And already saw from when I shared my wins in a private group, I got so many messages especially from people who want to be an artist, asking me questions, how do I do that? What should they do? And they're trying to sell their art online through Amazon or whatever, and that just all doesn't really work. There are different, sell out for low prices, which is different, but if you wanna sell them for high prices and really get the money that your art deserves, because they're all unique and they can be worth a lot on one point. So, then you should work with you and learn all of those things because it's super valuable.

  • So if somebody is listening and they're on the fence, why should they take action right now?

  • Why they should take action now, that's a good question. I think, because we are used to always waiting, always thinking, we overthink a lot, we always think like now it's not the right time, I'm too busy, I'm too that, I'm whatever, so it's always not now. And when I was on the call with you, I realized, yeah, how long do I wanna wait? I really have this goal since a long time, I know alone I can not make it, or it would just take years and years of hard work and frustration, so I just told myself, why not now? What am I waiting for? So, if you wanna do something, if you wanna make more money, now is the time, really, there is no perfect time. The perfect time will never come. So if you really feel you wanna make more money go for it now.

  • Awesome, man, so what's your number one piece of advice for coaches and consultants?

  • My number one advice, that's a very good question. I would say let's say, in general, I would say the number one advice is working with a mentor, working with a coach, because I could say you should learn how to sell, or do this, or do that, but in the end it all comes back to having somebody who really can give you professional advice, who really can take your hand and walk with you through the channel, because, actually, there's so much advice, there's so much confusion out there, actually. And it seems all sorts of complicated, but if you have one mentor that you can follow and you do what this mentor says, then you definitely will get to success 100%. So, I would say this to be the number one advice I can tell.

  • Amazing, man, well, thank you so much. Well, if people wanna learn more about you and your art where can they find out more online?

  • So, they can go to my website oliverhojas.com, or my Facebook profile, Oliver JanDaniel Hojas.

  • Yup, and so just so it's Oliver, how do you spell your website?

  • O-L-I-V-E-R, then, H-O-J-A-S, .com.

  • Perfect.

  • All together.

  • Awesome, well, Oliver, thanks so much, man. I am so stoked for you. I'm so happy when you messaged me the other day and you were like, "I sold this painting, 4,000 francs." It was amazing, and there's more to come. I can't wait to see what you do in the next month.

  • Me too, I'm excited, thank you so much Harry.

  • All right, thanks Oliver, bye everyone.

  • Bye.

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