Three, two, one. Hey everyone, Harry Whelchel here. Today I've got Kelly Gordon from Dapper Codes. Today we're gonna be talking about how Kelly added over $50,000 in revenue with the help of video testimonials. But before we get into it, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself. Kelly, why don't I turn it over to you and just please introduce yourself a little bit and tell us what you do with your business.
Definitely. So got started marketing back in 2008 when I graduated. Moved into really traditional kind of done for you models, started my agency in 2015. Really heavy into done for you. We were full service, kind of everything that you could do. Did make the switch recently. I wanna say end of last year sort of, now we're full into that now of a paper lead, which for those of you who don't know what that is it really falls under the umbrella of performance marketing. So basically we only get paid if people get results. So that's really where we are and at this point, well you know, we, most businesses love what we do. We provide qualified, verified, warm leads in real time at scale. That's what we're doing right now.
That's awesome. That's awesome. So, what type of businesses do you provide leads for right now?
Definitely. So currently we're in the insurance space. So the umbrella of that life insurance, business insurance, health share, which was new to me, not anymore, is okay. We've got solar leads--
What's, what's that?
Health share? It's, it's not actually insurance, but it falls under it because we have to use the vocabulary of it, otherwise none of us understand it. But it's essentially taking the idea. This is how it was explained to me. Of, it's generally religion based but it's mainly just about ethics. So take the idea of taking a, you know, the pot that goes around on Sundays, right? It's essentially that for health, for all of its people. So of course there's rules and regulations and all that, but it's a health sharing so everybody's, it's kind of like crowdfunding sort of kind of, and insurance, but it's not really. So it's new to me, apparently has been around for a long time, but it does fall under what we call the insurance umbrella. We are in mold remediation, we are in solar, finance and credit repair, a number of different businesses that essentially have an insatiable need for leads. What makes us better is that they're qualified and verified. So dealing with companies that can take as many as a hundred leads a week so,
That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, cool, well, how did you, how did you decide to get into like those different industries? They seem, are there some kind of interesting parallels or commonalities with them that on the surface you don't see?
Yeah. So that's a good question. Mostly it, I started where I had experience. And that really came from the done for you. Because we got started so long ago, we hadn't moved into the product dyes services that you see now, as far as agencies go, because we were traditional and full service. We had tons of different types of clients from a lot of different walks of life. So those were ones that we had had a lot of success with and we knew the industry well, we knew the numbers really well, and we knew that we could provide those leads.
Nice. Okay, cool. Cool. Well, let's go back to the beginning in terms of us working together. You know, when we first connected, what were you doing before working with us and, you know, were you looking out for something to help you with video testimonials?
Definitely. So I was still pretty much, I think, fully in done for you when we got started. I had kind of mentally started making the switch, but had not made this switch in a business at that point. And was realizing since we'd been in business for so long at this point, there were a lot of written testimonials, you know, we're BBB A+ Certified, you know, we've got a lot of testimonials, but none of them are video. And now, I mean, it's 2020 now, this was what, late 2019. And really saying, Hey, there's not, people really want the video. They're just, well, there's nothing that substitutes that and saying, Hey, we have a lot of really happy clients and we have case studies on our site. Let's supplement them with video and, and let's really make them digital assets that could be used not only on those case studies, but in things like retargeting ads and stuff like that.
Totally. So did you find, like, were you having sales calls or in your sales process, were you identifying moments where, said, oh man, it'd be nice if we had some more social proof assets or kind of what drove you to think I need to get some video testimonials?
Yeah. So I think it was maybe mid last year, 2019. We did have a bid out to a company that honestly we should have won. And in my opinion, I know that sometimes we don't, we're like, oh, that makes sense or this wasn't the best fit, but this was an absolutely perfect fit. And realizing that I think it, the only piece was that we didn't have the clout that they, or the perceived clout, that they wanted. And so it really is what's spurred in my mind that this was something that we needed to do. Honestly, I wasn't really sure how I was going to do it. A lot of the issues are, you know, these people are not very tech savvy. They don't know, even though they might be able to record on their phone, they don't know what to do with the file at that point, they can't send, it's just, it's a problem. And so we're running into that and I was saying, okay, you know, we need to be able to do this. So that's when we connected and started gathering these videos and actually had a closed, earlier this year we were by far the most expensive out of, I know of five other companies that were in the pot. So five others besides us. We were almost double the price for the original build and the monthly retainer. And I actually knew when their deadline was so I knew that, you know, by Thursday at two o'clock, they were all getting together to make a decision. So I actually sent them the link to our reviews, which at this point has, I think like eight videos on it at that point and sent that to them and said, Hey guys, I know you're making your decision and I just wanted to make sure that you saw this link. I know you've probably been on the site, but just wanted to get it to you. Looking forward to your decision, you know, all that stuff. And, and I, there's no real proof that that is what pushes them over the edge, but they did. And they responded in a very positive way that they had not seen that, even though it is pretty prominent on the site. So I really do think it played an integral part in that.
Interesting. Yeah. So they, they called out that they saw those and watched some of them. And then your pricing was so much higher than the other contenders that, yeah, I see. Okay. Yeah, that's interesting. So I actually wanna go back a second. You mentioned something about clout versus perceived clout. So were there, did you have any frustrations around, you know, you're doing this great work for your clients day in and day out, but then like, you're not, maybe you don't have, you're not maximizing documenting that and then being able to put it in front of your clients. Like, was that frustrating at all in the past?
Definitely. And I think, you know, kind of talking about my age here, that I really am maybe a little bit older than some of my colleagues who are very, very good at that. They essentially were raised with social media and video and knowing how this works. I didn't have a cell phone until I was almost 20, you know, so,
You know, it was kind of a different situation and really realizing that, you know, we, as a company, as Dapper Codes are a superior brand and we are very good at what we do. We have a lot of proof behind that. And, and being able to put that proof into what is understood as viable, understood as valuable in our current market in 2020. And it is, without it you're gonna get left behind.
Do you feel like it's been a shift, like when you got your business started in 2015, like it, you didn't need as, as many case studies, like you could just kind of talk about your clients in the sales conversation and the results, or maybe show them things, but now it's like change and you need more that, those assets upfront earlier in the, in the marketing process?
For sure. I mean, even when I started as a freelancer out of school in 2008, like the landscape is, is not even recognizable at this point. But even, you know, fast forward to, to 2015 when I did, you know, really start the business and have employees and all of that, that, it's just a different landscape. It really is. You could go in, I mean, we had Google reviews, we had, you know, a Better Business Bureau Certified, you know, all of these things that at least back then, which seems weird only five years ago, but it really was different. And now I wanna say it probably started early 2019, is when I really saw it becoming necessary. And, and now it's not just necessary it's without it you're, you're gonna not do well. Like it's, it's, it's one of those things that you just have to have. It's not a question anymore.
Got it. I'm curious. So you mentioned Google reviews, like, how do you, how, in your own mind, like, how do you look at some of these review sites? Like Google reviews or maybe, gosh, I don't know, there's tons of them like, I know in software there's like G2 crowd and Capterra and things like that. How do you compare, like, or trust pilot, maybe something like that. One of those review sites versus like, what role do those play versus the role of like actual case studies and video testimonials and things like that?
I don't think they're comparable in our, in our climate right now. I think that they were huge before. I think it, at the time, that's really all we had. And the idea was that it was a third party, not your site, not you, you know, writing these words that my client said this. You could do that and you could, we did it and they were true I had emails that showed it. But now I think, and probably for some unfortunate reasons that, you know, people were lying about it, they weren't true, there were false statements. That has led people to being burned by a lot of marketing companies. I don't think I talked to anybody now who hasn't been, so there is that. And so you say, okay, well, video's really something that you can't fake. Of course it is, but you have to have a lot of skills and we don't wanna go there. But you know, most of the time, if it's a video it's legitimate and it's coming from this person who says that I'm this person, and you can Google that person, see a picture of them, see their, their position on LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever. And it, it just gives a provable piece that is not in text. In the past that's all we had, but I think with a lot of issues that happened with text, you can't do that with video. And I think that it's, that's why it's used.
Yeah. No, I love that. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think what also comes to mind for me is like, I feel like a lot of companies who invest in Google reviews and things like that, it's like a, a form of local SEO. So it helps them get traffic to their local business or just traffic from the search engines and, but it doesn't really kick someone over the fence at the end of the sales process. You know, if they're trying to decide between two people, they're not gonna say, oh, well, this person has, you know, three more reviews on Google.
Exactly. A 100% agree. It's just not, I mean it, and that you bring up a good point. It does have a lot to do with local businesses. So with, how we got started, which is weird, that we didn't start locally. We actually started with national international clients that we actually didn't come local until later, which is strange. But the, the, the Google reviews and even the BBB doesn't really matter unless you're local. People like to see it and even our national international clients like to see the BBB, but it's not what pushes them over the edge.
It's a nice little credibility indicator but it's not a, it's not a deal breaker. Right?
So let me ask you this, like, let's go back. What, where did you first hear about us? How did we initially get connected?
I think we're actually in some online groups together and you just started popping up and I was like, what is he doing? You know, I'd actually worked with a client, a very large client that we went through the whole process of trying to get video testimonials and it was a complete nightmare. It was, we got over 500 videos. It was a total nightmare of, of how to get them, how to organize them, how to get all of the files. I mean, it, it really, it really was a problem. And so it really was on my radar of if I wanna do this, how am I gonna do this in a way that is manageable and scalable for our small teams.
Okay, cool. So what did, what peaked your interest about, you know, what we were doing and how we approach the problem?
I just really liked that the software is self-contained. I like that you can easily send non-tech savvy people a link. They can handle it on their device, but they never actually have a file. You can send, you can download it and send it to them if they wanted to them it's not like, you know, they can't have it, but it's, it's different in the sense of, instead of just, you know, like doing it on your phone or, or computer, then you have this file. Really, for me, the biggest part was that it was self-contained. Everything through there, you can even, you know, comment back to them and be like, Hey, you know, in this, you know, minute, you know, one and, and 30 seconds, like this is a little, we don't really wanna say that. You can comment back and they can redo it, but it's all together. You don't have this email chain, you don't have these files moving back and forth. It's just really nice that everything's together.
Cool. Okay, cool. So the big thing was just our approach, our system and our technology, just made it really easy for your clients and that was important to you.
Okay, cool. So what about, tell me this, like, as you've collected some of these testimonials from your clients, have you started to notice, like, what do you think makes a good testimonial? Like it's not just about the technology. What, what type of content did you look for and try to get your clients to create for you?
So that's a good question. So, because we have the traditional done for you and then moving into the PPL, they really are vastly different spaces and the people in the spaces value very different things. And so in our done for you, because they are really very extensive relationships that are on multiple year retainers at this point, it's difficult to, to, to want to even pinpoint. Well, I did this and this happened, I did this and this happened. What we're really establishing in, in that business model is trust. And that we do what we say that we're going to do that the business owner, that was the testimonial specifically with these larger company owners. That why they chose us, why they were happy that they chose us and what they believe that we have brought, not even just specifically, but more in a general whole business position of what we've done for their business. Now, for the paper lead market is very different, they don't care. They want to know, you know, what you can bring them? You know, what are the percentages of closing? You know, what are your, your landing page percentages? How many of the, the hundred leads a week did you send them that they closed and their specific industry and their specific geography? It's very, very different. Of course they want trust. They want all of these things but not so much as the other. So it was important to distinguish between them and understand and try to explain to the individuals what was wanted or needed in their own words and in their own way for their specific videos.
That makes total sense. Okay, cool. So how many testimonials did we collect together? Was it like five or seven or how many did you have?
Now, I think we have like eight or nine, I think.
Eight or nine? Okay, great.
And so you collected those, made it really easy for the client and then how have you been using those in your marketing and your sales process?
Definitely. So again, we, we gathered them in that transition phase. So we did build out our reviews page on the site, which is now part of the sales process. Like I shared before of knowing when that deadline is, going in and sending it, making sure that they have access to that at very key moments. I don't tend to bring it up early 'cause they are on the site. Obviously, if they land on it, great. If they don't, we know that they're going to 'cause we're gonna send them the direct link. Our goal is also to retarget with those videos. So we, with some of our clients, what we have found is that, so if they, you have a cold ad that come to your site, like that's great. They, they're already warm. They sort of know what you're doing. So, all we're doing is retargeting with testimonial videos. It's like a pattern interrupt. So they're like, wait, who is that? And they, they'll watch the video. Whereas if they see me again or see Dapper Codes again, like really blatantly they're like, I already saw that. And so if you can do that pattern interrupt, it's a really big deal. With paper lead we actually are putting it in the forefront because in, in done for you it's trust and you have to kind of, trust is a continuum and you have to be careful about, trust me, trust me, trust me, right? From the beginning, they like, well, I don't know about that. But in paper lead it's so tangible. That it's like, no, like, these are the industries they serve, these are the conversions that we normally see, you know, all of these very specific details. So it's just a different approach to where it falls in the marketing, but it all falls on the marketing. It's just kind of a strategic approach.
Yeah. So I think you've touched on this a little bit about some of the results you've gotten. Can you explain that a little bit more? What sort of results have you seen with these assets now?
Definitely. So I guess the biggest one we can talk about is the, the one where I actually sent it when I knew their deadline was. So we've already talked about this one and we actually the almost double, if not a little bit more than double of the initial project, as well as the retainer. And at that point they, they've signed a year contract, which means top line revenues over $50,000. Should they stay for the whole time? And there's really no reason that they won't 'cause we're doing really great work for them. So, and I, I, because they responded and said, no, I hadn't seen that link before their deadline, to me that means that link pushed them over the edge in a way that I'm comfortable with. So I attribute that to, to that effort.
That's awesome. So, like, looking ahead as you think about more deals that are coming in, more opportunities that you're having, how do you see this social proof, these case studies playing a role in those deals going forward? Do you feel like one, obviously it's gonna, like, we've talked about it lifting your conversion rate, but have you thought about like, does it influence your pricing power? Do you feel like it's gonna get you more leads through the retargeting?
A 100% yes to all of them. I definitely see that it will have a, especially for paper lead, 'cause this is all during COVID-19, fantastic everybody. So we're actually fully making the leap into paper, the paper lead because it's guaranteed, right? Business owners are really comfortable with it, but it can only be really comfortable with something that you trust, right? Or back to the trust piece, as well as having very tangible parts. So it's, it's all working together, but it definitely increases the buying power, which can be seen in the, in the client I just told you about. That we sent them that link that, you know, if we're more than double who you're looking at, then that's a big deal. That means that, you know, it's kind of like the whole idea of, what do I pay for food? Do I buy McDonald's or do I buy organic? Well, one is vastly better than the other. Right? And if you can put it in a way that, that, that doesn't necessarily say that to them, but they feel that, that's really what it is. Is that they feel it, they, they perceive the value and they attribute it to dollar signs, basically.
It's almost like they can kind of, maybe they subconsciously see themselves in your other clients.
Exactly. Yep. And that's a good point is saying, okay, make sure, you know, where your, what I'm noticing, which I hadn't quite noticed before is our, our business owners that have at least at this point sent videos are vastly male. And so that is an interesting part, even though one of them came to me and said, "Hey, can my husband do it?" Who's the CEO and co-founder. And I actually said, no, because I would prefer it to be the female because of what you just said, Harry, that, that people put themselves in these positions and so, you know, if there's a bunch of men, you know, and we're talking to female presidents or CEOs, they don't put themselves in it. It's a little bit different. There's a bit of a different perception. There's a bit of a different how they would have talked about it. And so that was something I didn't realize actually, until I started gathering these and it's something that I'm aware of.
Yeah. I, I, I'm so glad you, you brought that up 'cause it is something that I think people maybe, they can understand it when we're talking about it, but until they see it firsthand, they may not believe it's that prevailing. But basically like these assets are kind of where the market meets your benefits and your product to see your services. And like, they're almost more about your market or your clients than your product. So like, if you, the more of these assets you have that mirror different types of buyers that you have male or female, old, young, US-based, international like. And then you can send these people, assets of people that look like them and talk like them and maybe in the same verticals or industries, all that stuff is like, I don't know if it's just subconscious or it's conscious, but it's so powerful. And I wouldn't believe it until like I've seen it and I've seen it over and over and over again.
Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. But with marketing, we can do really cool stuff from, you know, just a basic retargeting ad, right? Or we can use personal URL as well, where we actually know who we're emailing and the landing page is tailored to them and you have to be, you know, depending on, on what scale we are here in marketing, there's ways that we can tailor that. Or there's ways that we know from, from data, are these men coming or are these females coming to this site? And at that point on that landing page you can change it. And it, and it is completely subconscious, I think. I don't think we, we see that and we do something with it in our brain. But the subconscious power of it is immense.
That's cool. So what, you know, when we are, we first got connected in these Facebook groups, we started building a relationship, doing some work together. What made you decide to like, keep working with me and, you know, yeah, just basically like spend the time, energy and our offering, our service, what kind of kicked you over the fence?
Definitely. So what I really liked originally was A, the software, the concept, because I had just come off of that project that I told you about. That it was such a nightmare of gathering all of them. I said, this is needed, oh my gosh, this is needed. And that was really how I got kind of interested in what you were doing and then really stayed because you were really great about, you know, anything that, this was kind of in the beginning of, of the software, I think and we worked out a couple of different pieces and you were so on it of, of saying yes, that, yeah, we need to do that, we need to do that. And the turnaround was so quick and, and really benefited, not only my clients being able to do the videos, but I think that the service itself and the product itself, but you have been, you know, we message you, you're right there. You wanna help, you wanna know how you can help and it's really great.
That's awesome. So who do you think, so I think you know about this right now, Kelly, like our model is, we both provide consulting and coaching with our clients. We hold their hands, but we also do have some proprietary technology. That's part of our offering. So in line of that, like in your eyes, who do you think would be a really good fit to work with us?
To me, it falls into two categories. One, course creators because you can put it on autopilot. And that's really the, I don't think there's anything out there like it in the way that you can work with the software or work with your consulting. And also the really productized digital agencies or social media marketing agencies. Productize really because there's an automation factor and they can really focus on the, these are, this is what we did, these are the results we got, this is the industry that we're in, you know, and it's really straightforward, but they generally in the productize agencies, they are working at scale. And so I think scale here makes it a no brainer, specifically. So both I think have their, their pieces, but I think it's actually rooted in the fact that they're automated and at scale.
Got it. Yep. So I think, I think you're onto something. Somebody who has an offering where maybe they're bringing on a handful, at least a handful of clients every month, it's 'cause they, they have their service delivery model, model is efficient. Right? So whether they're doing a course or a product high service, maybe even I think like one-on-one coaching, if they've got enough bandwidth, those people can be really good. Yeah. No, I think that's, I think you're right. That makes a lot of sense. So if someone's listening to this interview right now and they're on the fence, why should they take action?
If you're, Hey, if you've gotten this far, then you're interested and you've got, there's something on your mind that's saying, Hey, like I need video. And we've just kind of explained where it's got the best potential. I think there are a lot of other possibilities that it can really help a business, but knowing that video is, it just, it's not even a decision, it's just, it, it has to happen and know that that has to be on your docket as a business owner. Working with your clients and getting the ability to have the assets to push new business over the fence. 'Cause you know your competitors are doing this. There's just, I think that this software and Harry specifically can help you get over that fence and really systemize your acquisition in a way that is productive and financially beneficial.
Awesome. That's awesome. Well, cool. Well Kelly, thanks so much for your time. If people wanna learn more about you and your business, where can they find you online?
Definitely. So probably the best place to find me is dappercodes.com. That is our hub for everything that we do. And anything else for me you can find from there. So just keep that in mind and come find me.
Cool. Well, thanks Kelly. We'll talk soon.
Thanks so much, Harry.
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